The reign and fall of the Premier League (2024)

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1. maguiresbridge gooner

   Jun 08, 2014, 23:54 #52522

   The wife loves her garden and her flowers, me? i wouldn't know one weed from the next unless they played for Arsenal, and there has been plenty of them over the last nine years, but i must remind her the next time she wants to buy Pansies to make sure and ask the assistant for those lovely flowers with four petals or is it five, that are small and have lovely colours that bloom and spread out well and their name begins with P, hopefully the attendant will know what flower she's talking about because it will save her for having to use or apologise for using the word Pansies.

2. BADARSE

   Jun 08, 2014, 23:00 #52521

   Sadly true and too realistic for the appetites of some westlower. It was a lovely idea, it had a fairy tale taste to it though. Anyway as I said yesterday we could have been buying his services at half a million pounds a game. You would expect a return on that, why even Barney Curly would!

3. Westlower

   Jun 08, 2014, 21:48 #52520

   When you break down our reputed £100m transfer fund it's easy to see why the resigning of Fabregas doesn't make any sense. His transfer fee + wages would take out half of our kitty. Out of the remaining half we still have to buy a GK, RB, DM & striker(s). Ozil, Cazorla, JW, Ox, Ramsey can all fill the Cesc role. Fabregas would have been a luxury we simply couldn't afford.

4. BADARSE

   Jun 08, 2014, 21:27 #52519

   Hi 24601. Your analysis is the truest I will hear outside of my own head-the voices are still there! Olivier's standard is as good as we are ever likely to be in the market for, money dictates that standard. Remy looks a good option and a possible foil for Giroud. The RB, keeper and another good defensive midfielder would be priorities. That £100 million would have evaporated with those four. With those strategic purchases I think we would be as solid an outfit as possible and fourth place looks a real likelihood. I think that last sentence will do harm to some...look out DW Thomas is opening that top window again!

5. Westlower

   Jun 08, 2014, 21:00 #52518

   @Bard & Ron, The list of transfer targets are opinions from 'football experts' in the bookies trading room. I doubt much business is done but it keeps interest alive in the close season. It's a captive audience as nothing excites a football fan than the prospect of a new signing. Doubtless some traders are better informed than others but generally they are just using their judgement on what happens next. As we all are well aware it's easy to draw up a list of targets, yet another to acquire them. Talk of a £100m pot sounds grand but when you have to recruit 4 or 5 new players it dilutes somewhat the class of player obtainable. Do we buy one mega star when the whole package totally gobbles up our war chest or do you lower the sights and get 5x £20m packages? Traditionally AFC used to buy one big signing every 2 to 3 years and I can't see that changing. Whether we like it or not we don't have the financial clout of the mega rich clubs. Reality dictates that if Real Madrid, PSG, Man City, Chelsea, Man U are in for a player it's unlikely we'll be able to compete. IMO we have to continue to buy young players, like Ox, Walcott, Ramsey and bring them up to the next level. Given the fierce financial competition I can't ever see the day when AFC are able to go out and buy a Championship winning side. We have little option but to continue buying young talent with potential. Being realistic I hope our major signing will be a defensive midfielder. We already know we've got to buy a goalkeeper & RB. How much will be left in the pot after those 3 purchases? Acquiring Remy may leave enough to add another young striker. There's even talk of Carlos Vela returning. I personally don't think Benzema is much different to Giroud & wouldn't pay over the odds for him. Just imagine how difficult life would be if we were out of the CL. There is simply no guarantee that any new signing, however large the fee, will live up to expectations. As Ron suggested, Balotelli signing will probably be done with Puma subsidising the deal. I can't see AFC risking a major portion of the transfer pot on a volatile player.

6. BADARSE

   Jun 08, 2014, 20:10 #52517

   My dear, dear maguiresbridge. What is wrong in believing a player is not the best suited to coming to AFC, and supporting him if he does? Is this a fundamental flaw in your outlook? Is it that you decide AW should go and you cannot ever move from that position? You had a similar slant on the FA Cup i.e 'They don't rate the FA Cup, now they are celebrating winning it!' What is in error there? Seriously dude, I am a traditionalist in many ways and hark back to the days long since gone when we all could celebrate the FA Cup. Now it brings minimal rewards but fourth place brings huge finances to our door. The rewards help the club to maintain a place at the top table. How we utilise the money is a question of debate it's true, but the logics are clearly obvious, get the biggest penny to enhance the club. If they misuse that big penny it is another debate, not the reasoning of putting the FA Cup below the CL place. That is logical and reasoned, as a fan I naturally want the club to win everything and silverware is a prime motivation, but my heart doesn't rule my head, though it tries pretty hard on occasions. It means I want my cake and to eat it too. This season I did!

7. maguiresbridge gooner

   Jun 08, 2014, 19:44 #52516

   DW Thomas, not a problem mate OGL could just put on his hard hat and steel toe capped boots and clean of his trowel and build us another one.

8. maguiresbridge gooner

   Jun 08, 2014, 19:15 #52515

   Ron, hear what your saying ref Balotelli and he certainly has a lot of what we've been lacking for a long time and would be a breath of the freshest air that has been around this team and club for a long long time, unfortunately as jw says i can't see it, now if it was any other manager at the helm with real ambition apart from this old has been i wouldn't rule it out. But maybe it's more likely it's TKOS and his team hard at work again (renewals must be slow) but if by some miracle it is true and a bigger one it happens you can be sure those against it and didn't want it/him would be declaring it a great coup with slaps on the backs all round and all would be quickly forgotten especially after he started knocking them in.

9. Ron

   Jun 08, 2014, 19:10 #52514

   Westie - I used to like Johnson. Gone back in his development though in my view and gone back a long way. Error prone right now. Not convinced on Benteke yet. Benzema is much better than what we ve got, but is he worth his price? Hmmm? Caulker and Richards. Im with Bard on those two. Milner could do a job for Arsenal.I must be missing something with Mandzukic. Why do people get exited about him? I rate Bony. I would replace The Pole with Casillas without a second's hesitation. Take Ruddy too and sell the Pole. Khedira ? Unsure. The Hulk? See Benteke. Balotelli. Absolutely. Schneiderlin? Possibly. Draxler - rate him highly. The others? no real feelings either way Westie. Next Coach? Its academic now, but just watch Paul Jewell and Phil Brown make a late surge.

10. Bard

    Jun 08, 2014, 18:29 #52513

    Guys you cannot be serious about Balotelli. He is a brilliant footballer no mistake but far too selfish and unstable to be of any use to us. Westie I found the names on that list you posted spectacularly depressing, hardly a really top player in it. Most are the kind of players Aston Villa might buy.

11. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 17:59 #52512

    DW Thomas, that was a good post, something for everyone to get their teeth in to. I have banged on long and hard (ooh, Matron! see what you have done jjetplane?), about modern society, but I can rewind. Footballers are men and do what they do best, but for a living. In the halcyon days of Herbert Chapman it was a golden age for AFC. We look back through those red and white tinted specs and never focus on the deprivations that existed then. Our golden era of the thirties was magical, it was possibly one of the worst decades for people. The depression bit, people struggled and the light at the end of the decade proved to be the 'blitz'. It was a trying and terrible time and players played, desperate not to upset and feel the wrath of the manager. Football clubs were institutions and players were slaves in so many ways. Only George Eastham changed that, and football has continued to evolve, tipping the scales until those at the very top of the tree are just hired guns. We still cling to yesterday. We reminisce of former players, but why do you think captains take up a huge amount of these discussions? It's because they represent power, leadership, commitment, and the club. In fact they represent all we hold dear and how we think we might behave in their position. Life has always been fickle, it is glaringly obvious nowadays, that is the only difference. Every now and again we connect with a player, for a variety of reasons. Those who leave under a cloud become traitors. Too convenient by a long chalk. They are just men. Sagna is going to earn enough money to run a small country. His lineage is ensured for generations. He knows that AFC would give him a season, possibly two, but he can more than double those earnings, so will go. Absorb that DW Thomas, come to terms with it, recognise the different rules they play by compared to the role of a fan and accept it. There are still fleeting moments of joy to be had; players walk away, fans never can.

12. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 17:31 #52511

    Hi Ron just home, shattered, seen your post and both hands extended chum, one to shake the other offering the fiver I promised you if you mellowed a little, ha ha. Yeah, things can get the better of you/me/him whenever. I am happy to reconcile as I did say with sincerity you have a story to tell and people can learn from it. Gunner get my cuppa Rosie, am gagging. Be back later. Seen your name 24601 will check out later what you have written, and I see you are on your bike jjetplane, though I do think Matron says cycling would be better using a saddle, whoops!

13. Westlower

    Jun 08, 2014, 16:34 #52510

    Add Antoine Griezmann to previous list; PSG 6/4; AFC 7/2; Man U 5/1; Chelsea 8/1; Barcelona 10/1. No odds quoted on Alvaro Morata moving club. Klopp remains the 10/1 favourite to be next AFC manager.

14. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 08, 2014, 16:32 #52509

    Edmund, good point about players wanting to join, if they're been talked about or touted (or more importantly wanted especially by the fans) it will be a no go as OGL will not be dictated to or told what to do, so expect someone that has never been mentioned and we've probably never heard of, as he likes nothing more than keeping us waiting and guessing.

15. Westlower

    Jun 08, 2014, 16:02 #52508

    Latest bookies odds on players likely to join AFC, in order of probability: Remy 1/5; Schneiderland 6/4; Draxler 7/4; Milner 2/1; Balotelli 3/1; Caulker 7/2; Pedro Rodriguez 7/2; Richards 4/1; Benzema 4/1; Hulk 4/1; Calhanoglu 9/2; Glen Johnson 5/1; Mandzukic 6/1; Khedira 6/1; Benteke 7/1; Debuchy 8/1; Casillas 8/1; Ruddy 10/1; Bony 12/1.

16. jjetplane

    Jun 08, 2014, 15:49 #52507

    Getting into this stride and Ozil, Ramsey and Giroud mixing it up with Balotelli could bring back the passion we so much miss. He could even show the postie where the mail box is! Yep sold on this and the shake up would be good. If it all goes PT it will still have been worth it. Of course, if it is just corporate shindigs - well, what's new. Also think CF is better off elsewhere though the spotlight will be truly on Maureen next season giving advantage to Citeh in the race for title. Also wondering whether Liverpool will manage their CL invitation better than Arsenal. Meaning we will have it all to do to move above them and apart from that looking forward to lots of silly football that does not involve giving media cartels money. Onward the people of the Favelas! Beachball forever.

17. DW Thomas

    Jun 08, 2014, 15:18 #52506

    Very, very interesting gentlemen. I am of the mindset that Balotelli would be another misstep in transfers and a total gamble. Admit I cannot predict the future, but what best predicts it? Past behavior! Balotelli is a loose cannon and not the type I prefer or think we need. Sure, talented, but a rover moving from club to club, and doesn't seem for good reasons. Almost the epitome of a pampered brat. Again, no personal knowledge, the media stories aren't always false are they. As for Ron and Badman, I enjoy your arguments and differences, many others as well, even if they sometimes go against what I deeply believe. Yet, we should welcome new/different ideas to our own, doesn't make ours less believed, but many times in life and this blog people have convinced me of better ways to think about things. And I am not easily persuaded and like to think at least that I am one who thinks critically and in depth about things I care about. Especially Arsenal! Again I welcome Remy and Cesc more,but agree a DM and top RB are key priorities as well. Sagna was a loyal top class player with a lionheart who may have gotten a little too greedy. My small mindset never really understands why these guys leave for money to other clubs when they have it so good here. And no I am not naive to how we treat our older players and that other clubs have bigger resources to lure them away. It's just that it always seems rotten. And when something gets too rotten what does one do with it? Kind of where I away right now, even after the FAC win. The club feels rotten on many levels to me. Greed, coach power,players leaving, continuous failure when the peak is so near, etc. Sorry to sound like a downer, but give me something to cheer for and I'll be Mr. Happy!

18. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 08, 2014, 14:57 #52505

    Ron, your spot on about Big Tone he's never been replaced as Captain, and never will as long as it's down to this past it manager, SKG he certainly wouldn't care who he offended and wouldn't be afraid to voice his opinion either, and that i suspect is why this egoist hasn't him about the place.

19. Ron

    Jun 08, 2014, 14:40 #52504

    JJ - Youre right in that a no nonsense 'general' is needed alongside the likes of Ballo, but ironically i think the same effects could come from the young bucks we've got (if we can keep them)would foster a bond of commonality with him and extract his best. He was a kid out of water at City, with all the grizzled,experienced heads in the main around him and maybe never had enough of his contemporaries with him? As i see it, we need some theatre back at Arsenal. We play in one, but the audience is stunted for the lack of drama in the place. Great theatre contains the unharnessed and escapism. Football should do too and for me, save for the odd example the Club has for the most de composed in its own conservative corinthianism and cold reason. Theres a place for that in Clubs, in business for sure, but theres also a place for grand risk and as Badarse correctly says, it can bring the train off the rails catastrophically. Great Clubs the World over have never shied from the big player gamble, the ego tripper, the outrageous. Look at Utd as an example close to home, if not the Madrids and Milans of this World throughout their their history. Stacked full of magnetic egocentric players who've ruled the roost. Yes, its often short lived also as Badarse also correctly notes. A recent example for them was Cantona. Clubs wouldn't touch the guy, hell even his own nation had him down as irascible loon. Enter Utd and the rest is history. He shaped a Club, he controlled destiny for 5 years or so and remained unharnessed. In doing so, his bravado rubbed off on those who played alongside him. They prospered. It took a gamble by a brave and ambitious Coach.It might have crashed and burned. It didnt. For them, it was wonderful. A cult was born. Whats Arsenal fans idea of a cult over these last how many years? Freaking Eboue is the answer i'm looking for guys. A cult born of ineptitude and dubious comedy. Is that all us Gooners are entitled too? Surely not. I for one am tired of the tepid at Arsenal. Lets have less Romeo and Juliet in our theatre, less navel gazing quiet contemplation and more unabashed, sexy hedonism and slashing excitement Titus Andronicus. Lets have Ballo!! Come in young man and wake up these slumbering Gooners and ease their furrowed brows. Rock the boards of our theatre Son. Youre allowed to fail too! PS BADARSE - Moved on already fella. Its only the passion for the Club that ignites the fireworks in us all (and yes, it can get a bit too hot at times) A co existing hand is tendered to you for shaking?

20. jjetplane

    Jun 08, 2014, 14:14 #52503

    Sorry BADARSe but you may be in a league of one as I cannot find another poster who does not enjoy RON's postings. I find nothing he says insulting and believe me there are very few on here singing from the same hymn sheet. Everybody hopefully is having a bit of fun and having a good 'moan' is part of that. I think you have an issue with RON because he does not think your way. Why that is a problem I am lost. Personally think the marginally perceived cynicism running through this site is not something born of people venting personal issues. Far from it - we are talking Arsenal in way we choose. The rest is grating and best passed over. Never seen a RON posting yet that wasn't about footer and I think his insights are worth their weight. Anyway - it's sunday, the beaches are opened, and the sharks are circling .... Happy days young man.

21. jjetplane

    Jun 08, 2014, 12:58 #52502

    RON hard to ever disagree with you and the Ballo take is excellent. If we got him he might just deliver and as you say his mere presence puts clubs on edge. Still need someone on the pitch for him to look up to. An Adams type and certainly not an Arteta who has no influence on other players and is quite happy to deflect everything away from himself. So - Ballo in and Wenger out. Nice. We need a journey of challenges, not another three years of corporate humdrum with the emirate priesthood. Away into the desert you fools.

22. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 12:24 #52501

    Thank you for the advice Ron. In fact in all honesty, you are not such a bad chappie yourself. Leave out the insults and stick to offering a view and the younger guns can learn a lot from you, even us older ones can. I say this with absolute sincerity. The differences between us means, if kept to one side, we can happily coexist. I do want Arsene to stay. I do respect him. I do not want Arsenal to fail in vague hopes that my agenda is fulfilled. I do think we have a potentially superb squad assembling, irrespective of their individual weight in kilos. I do not subscribe to the concept of brute force carrying the day, though on occasions it has helped me. I suggest you take your own advice too, just chill. I prefer you when you are more mellow. So, friendly, if not friends.

23. Ron

    Jun 08, 2014, 12:06 #52500

    Badarse - 'discussion over' indeed. The soothing effect of those words is inestimable and i promise to sleep well at night without your ringing endorsem*nt of my comments. Carry on beating your 'im the victim' drum though if you like, but keep it to footie in the main thats all thats needed chappie.

24. jeff wright

    Jun 08, 2014, 11:33 #52499

    My view is that the club needs a change of direction , owner /manager would be a good start.Balotelli causes disruption in the changing room and the only way Wenger signs him is if Stan orders it, a'la the duff Turk that senor Perez topped us up with. Mad Mario is sponsored by struggling Puma the same firm that sponsors our kit, he is the player for Puma and money never sleeps so it's not impossible that mad Mario might turn up at the Emirates ,I doubt it will happen though other than if desperation regarding finishing 4th kicks-in again after the season has begun.The trolley is ready and waiting for that familiar dash ! The sight of a grinning Balotelli in it at the end will not please everyone though.

25. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 10:11 #52498

    Good morning 24601, nice to have you back for a while. On the subject of Wrighty I explained to a young Gun named Thomas yesterday, some feeling of Rioch's short reign. A fundamental aspect was the fall out with Ian Wright who I believed fired in a transfer request. The board panicked and I think Rioch's tenure was at an end, such was the power of Ian Wright's threat. He was a bit of a blunderbuss in discussional terms. That was quite disruptive in many ways.

26. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 9:41 #52497

    Ron, I have little or no regard for you or your toxic views of life. I challenge loose statements as and when I choose to, and shall continue to do so. Your last post is littered with insults, you may not be able to recognise them anymore as they are clearly a part of you, but others can. You ask about judgement. When an individual sprinkles inconsequential in a chat, post or basically any form of communication it tells you much about the mind set of the individual. An archaic but dismissive reference to pansies is still hom*ophobic. When the same person litters there comments with, 'lightweight' and 'flaky', and pursues the strong-armed tactics as a necessary it gives an illuminating picture of that person. The tragedy is the main point is valid, all teams need a blend of artistry and enforcing personalities. The thrust of the point isn't being challenged, but the manner it is couched in shows much. I think you have established what you regard as the status quo of this site and do not like it challenging. Who does? Yet the way you deal with an alternative view is quite remarkable. I am sure you cannot continue this behaviour in the real world, as it would have consequences. As for the rude insults you hurl, yet in so doing accuse me of the same is astonishing. This post is critical of your behaviour, it is neither rude nor insulting. It doesn't dredge up and insult your philosophies, life style, leisure time, politics et al. Discussion over.

27. Westlower

    Jun 08, 2014, 9:33 #52496

    Good morning all. There is enough time between the Epsom Derby & Royal Ascot for me to rejoin the fray. I tend to liken Balotelli more to Ian Wright than Charlie. Wrighty's goal scoring is legend & he was one of the most exciting Gunners ever but it came at a price. The team lost it's way as title contenders when Wrighty was in his pomp. AFC became a Cup team, capable of beating anyone on any given day, but lacked the consistency in the league. Wrighty's personality & selfishness for goals overshadowed his fellow strikers and as a consequence the careers of Alan Smith & Kevin Campbell suffered. It was only when Anelka replaced Wrighty that the team improved it's consistency. There is little point in upsetting the dressing room just to massage one players ego.Remy looks odds on to join us and the addition of another promising striker, Morata and/or Griezmann, added to Giroud, Podolski & Sanogo would give us sufficient fire power. For me, the most important signing of this transfer window is for a dominant defensive midfielder. It's a month now since Wenger last won any silverware, disgraceful!

28. Ron

    Jun 08, 2014, 9:21 #52495

    Good old Badarse. Fella, you can't stop yourself from hurling your insults and right on cue there you go again. On the issue of insults though, as you like to mention them again, what is properly insulting is your incessant regaling of everybody with your fake intellect and 'chuminess'. The constant drumbeat of your tired broken politics and jumbled up philosophies is so nauseous. This a footie message board, where football views are exchanged, argued, battered, bruised and recycled. What it isn't is the local socialist workers chapter or other such invidious left centric society. There are lots of sites where those ramblings can be exchanged im sure. As i've suggested, you need to chill out and live a bit by the sound of you.In the meantime ill carry on challenging your claptrap when i want too, whether you think it 'insulting' or not.

29. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 8:51 #52494

    Evening Ozzie. I thought I hadn't misread your post chum. Another beautiful morning here. So you are coming to England for a visit? Will you get a chance to see the lads at the Grove? Note am not asking personal questions and have no wish to know if you share a similar pastime to radfordkennedy as in smuggling old people out of the country. By the way I don't think all the Arsenal Ladies are named Sheila-but didn't they do well also?

30. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 8:25 #52493

    You need to stop insulting Ron, it shows you up for what you are. Note I make no insults despite a recurring theme of yours that I do, it is a smokescreen. You are the most offensively insulting poster on this site and exist because despite the rudeness many share a fundamental viewpoint, that being, get rid of Arsene Wenger. As it is what those people want to hear they overlook the diatribes and possibly see you as a champion of their cause. Your distaste of Arsenal is transparent and every now and then the mask slips. To make a judgement of any situation, circ*mstance or individuals actions we apply observational knowledge and a level of personal expertise. Every assessment may be flawed, it makes us human. Politics and any other personal trait has no place in an exchange except with the bully boy tactics you constantly employ. As I said those who identify with you as a mouthpiece for their views rub their hands together in glee. The more discerning of those who share the basic desire-to see the back of Arsene Wenger-also judge, and they judge you and your behaviour. I think you perhaps sorely embarrass some, as they know it tears at the fabric of their prime concern of management change.

31. Ron

    Jun 08, 2014, 8:04 #52492

    You know Ballotelli well than Badarse do you? Charlie George too? From what authority do you claim to have the expertise that he or any chappie has 'mental deficiencies'? How do you know whether he's genuinely 'disruptive'? You sound like you've swallowed tabloid journalism and interpreted it as gospel truth. You've a loose opinion and can merely speculate on this, as with any other footie matter, the same as any of us, so why try and dress your utterings up as some some bizarre brand of empirical evidence?Its a typical leftie technique that you adopt. Take a look at something or a circ*mstance , flavour it with fake moralistic undertones to suit your own distorted views and vacuous agendas and then pass it off as an unambiguous 'truth'. Thats whats 'dangerous', not exchanging a few football observations on a message board. Thankfully, such a take on life has been redundant for years. You need to lighten up and get out there and have a blast at life, you might even enjoy it.

32. Ozzie

    Jun 08, 2014, 7:42 #52491

    G'day RadfordKennedy, banter aimed at Badarse. No offenceintended to anyone. On the contrary, enjoy reading everyoneGooner including yourself. You'll have to make allowances for us Antipodeans who often get things....arse up --> (-:

33. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2014, 7:21 #52490

    No, Balotelli is nothing like Charlie George! Charlie was a rascal. A lad from the streets-a latter day North Bank Boy, who loved Arsenal, and still does. Those broad brush strokes paint over all the fine lines of separation. Herein lies the problem that I harp on about incessantly. Why? Because it's dangerous. It clouds the issue or topic concerning us. Half truths, smudged facts, generalisations, and suddenly it becomes the truth. It isn't! Charlie was a rebel as I was, as many of the day were. We'd seen and heard the hypocrisy being ladled out by the power men, those in control, and it didn't sit comfortably with many. The poets of the day, the young unabashed songwriters furnished us with powerful words to hurl at the opposition in their lyrics, and hurl them we did. The posters proclaimed the similar viewpoints, demanding unanswered questions from the establishment. I asked many, and half a century later am still awaiting satisfactory replies. Charlie was born into this era, and displayed the zeitgeist as evidently as me writing this. He challenged. In an Arsenal training 5 a side game he waltzed around players and stood on the edge of the semi circle and said to Willow, 'Which side do you want it Bob?' He was a hero. He is still with AFC, he still wants it badly, like you and I. Balotelli is a complex individual with many issues, probably mental disorders. He doesn't love Arsenal, and more to the point couldn't love anything. That is a mental deficiency, and generally at this stage of life irreparable. He is rebellious, though his antics are ill-judged and often ill-timed. He is therefore a disruptive influence. It is not a power struggle between two men, manager and potential player, that is just another example of reductionism. Reduce everything to it's lowest common denominator, it will seem and sound the same and can be passed off as the truth, people will suck it up. It's false. Balotelli is a wonderfully gifted footballer. There are links with him and Puma-our new sponsor-he is looking for a club, money may be OK as his wages could be underwritten by Puma. He would be a quick-fix on a years contract, or two. He may be a solution of sorts, but he will always be a loose cannon, and Arsenal know a great deal about cannons. As for the recurrent theme of AFC needing shaking up, this is a brand of management which is seriously flawed. In the meal you are preparing you assemble the correct ingredients and cook, anything needs adding then you do so, if something needs removing, you carefully pick it out. Taking the pan from the heat and shaking it will not change the basic ingredients, but it could spill all over you. You need a fine chef, not a navvy with a cement mixer. This is much of the same, a story doing the rounds, but this one has a few cobwebs on it due to age. It is interesting and sometimes intriguing trying to allow for and understand the dynamics likely to present themselves, but viewed from the hill I sit upon, much is nonsense and drivel. Just take time to sift and recognise which is which, wherever you sit. I give you the FA Cup Winners 2014, Arsenal!

34. Ron

    Jun 08, 2014, 6:19 #52489

    Ballotelli on his own maybe wouldn't solve the Clubs goal scoring problems entirely and yes, he carries with him a package of unpredictability, excitement, power, strength, crowd pulling edginess and anticipation, brittle temperament, physical durability, an unquenchable big match hunger, some goals, controversy, the ability to actually frighten the life out of big Club opponents, a sense of the maverick, a propensity to challenge his Coach, a raw desire to play the game his way and a general all round mixture of the mouth watering, mouth gaping sense of lunacy and brilliance that lights up crowds and stadia in differing amounts of whichever mix happens to suit the day.Yes, thats Ballo and for whats it worth my view is that hes just what Arsenal need to inject some excitement, a sense of anticipation and explosive unbridled talent into the Club again, after years of cloned little lightweight choirboys all unquestioningly singing from their dull masters hymn sheet which have given the Club what? In long bygone days when Arsenal were a Club that others didn't smirk at or push around we had a young lad who gave us all what Ballotelli did and we loved him for it. I give you Mr Charlie George. Ballotelli in my view is just what Arsenal need. Is he what Wenger can take on and cope with? Would he have the slightest idea of handling an unharnessed rebel in his locker room? Would he give Ballo licence to 'do what he does' and unleash his talents? I some how cant see it, but we can wonder cant we? Arsenal need to brush off the cobwebs that the Clubs been draped in and weighed down with for years, shake itself free of its drab inertia. This young guy Ballotelli could be just the medicine.

35. DW Thomas

    Jun 08, 2014, 2:28 #52488

    C'mon. No way we could be signing Balotelli? If thats the answer to our problems up front, lets stick with Sanogo and Giroud and give a young lad a chance. His antics just aren't worth it. Why not sign John Terry while we're at it? Suarez at least toned down his problems and scored a boatload of goals. I know the media is not to be trusted but wow. The club speak out of both sides of their mouth. Remy I don't mind. He'd at least add some pace and decent runs for our MF. Then again, Balotelli's ego is close to the size of Arsene's. Can they both fit in the Emirates? Or will we need a new stadium? Say it aint so!

36. DJ

    Jun 07, 2014, 22:05 #52487

    The silence from the club regarding Cesc is deafening. Many say Wenger didn't have an option with all our players wanting to leave but Cesc wanted to come back and we didn't want him! He is world class and better than both Carzorla and Ozil because he has balls! Any goodwill Wenger received after our cup win has well and truly been lost. To let a player of his ability go Chelsea demands an explanation at least though I don't think I can think of one!

37. jjetplane

    Jun 07, 2014, 21:52 #52486

    Love it MG Building what? Like some made wannabee artist only he is just an aging economics student whose been allowed to run riot in the Arsenal Lab for ... how much longer ..... Please go and take the emirates with ya! Landfill is the best squad description yet! Quick! Teacher's coming ......

38. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 07, 2014, 21:20 #52485

    KC, i wouldn't blame him either and didn't when he left in the first place i'm only surprised he want's/wanted to come back at all (if true)we all know who's to blame an old has been with no ambition, i never blamed RVP either, the majority of them were proved right, Fabregas had what was it two or three? medals in his first year away alone i don't know how many he has now so know doubt likes winning them and want's to win a lot more so like i said i'm surprised he want's/wanted to come back here. But of course they all got stick from the wenger luvvies for abandoning poor arsene, in the middle of building, building what? my god how long is it now and he's still building he's only just got rid of the last remaining third fourth rate blocks that no self respecting builder would have about the place and would only use for landfill, as has been said on here many times we'd be, and indeed will be a long time in a caravan if we are waiting for him to finnish building us a house.

39. Edmund

    Jun 07, 2014, 16:28 #52484

    I just read that AW going for Balotelli. If that really happens, AW must be truly bonkers. If he needs comedy that much,he should give Bendtner a new contract.On the other hand, there is Loic Remy who allergedly wants desperately to join Arsenal.Whatever his virtues, it probably means AW wont sign him. Ever since Gervinho, a public interest in joining is the kiss of death. Berbatov wanted to help us land the title last season, got welcome tweets from players and didn't get signed.Theo's article hit a very good point in that the Arsenal have never been very far from the mark and would have bagged more trophies if not for one or two signings. Schwartzer vs Almunia. Last season I think it was Berbatov vs Sanogo. The coming season, I predict Fab will win the league for Chelsea thanks to AW's generousity just like RVP for MU in 2013. What sort of dispassionate collective decision can account for such repeated errors in judgement. Always a day late and a dollar short. By the way, Brendan Rodgers has done his shopping early and will have a good chance of finishing above us again.

40. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 15:54 #52483

    Hi radfordkennedy. I didn't read the post that way, but perhaps that's my poor interpretation. I couldn't imagine Ozzie would be rude, unless he has specific reasons. I'm very anti-armies/war and the hype that surrounds, as you probably are aware. I like to think I am able to ignore the nonsense and focus on individuals, hence my stance. Am always affected by the poignancy of people laying down their lives for others. The supreme sacrifice. Your impassioned quote was also nice. I have always said if I was tied to a stake and about to be run through, I would do my best to spit in the perpetrators eye as he did it. Empty statement, empty gesture, but a statement and gesture nonetheless.

41. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 15:39 #52482

    Hello Thomas. As with Clough, Rioch was a fine footballer. Played for Scotland as a direct result of ancestry I believe. He was only with us a year so was a season rather than an era. Argued with the board over transfer funds, which probably helped him out of the door. His greatest legacy was buying Dennis Bergkamp. He fell out with Ian Wright along the way who wanted to leave AFC which was also probably instrumental in his falling out of favour with the board. He did get us European football on the last day of the season though. Sacked just before the new term got underway. Arsene arrived in September 1996.

42. radfordkennedy

    Jun 07, 2014, 15:27 #52481

    Ozzie...I assume its me you're calling a simpleton as it was me who replied to Badarse...firstly my appologies if I bored you yesterday or offended you in some way talking about D-Day,in the summer months its how I earn a living taking tours etc,so sometimes I can go on a bit because its something I'm passionate about sorry..in answer to your question 'for what'ill give you the answer given by a heroine of mine a lady called Dolores Ibarruri known as 'La Pasionaria'when asked the same question.".Mas vale morir de pie que vivir de rodillas" which translates as "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees"

43. Thomas

    Jun 07, 2014, 15:19 #52480

    Hello lads I only seen Wenger as our manager all my life but how was the Bruce Rioch era and why did he get sacked?

44. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 15:18 #52479

    Edmund, contrary to what some might think and say, I am sure Ivan Gazidis is a very aware individual. He could not survive without being abreast of moods and feelings from the fan base. The collective decision has perhaps been made not to purchase Fabregas. Yes we would like him back but my grandchildren would prefer a couple of bars of chocolate for dinner. A sensible, dispassionate decision has to be taken and adhered to. Your summing up of Mertesacker is about right. I think his strongest card is his awareness on the pitch, and I think it follows him into his everyday routines. He is a sharp and shrewd individual-the opposite of Podolski, ha ha. Yes what an idea to have a 'Mertesacker' on the board. Recently I mooted the idea of Martin Keown on the board, he would fix the other members with a steely look and they would experience a panic attack.

45. Ron

    Jun 07, 2014, 15:13 #52478

    DW - theres a great book on the Clough/Revie relationship that you can pick up in most Waterstones or Smiths plus BC s autobiographies are really well worth a look at. Much better than the TV stuff you've seen though good they are, the Film too. PS Perhaps Wenger does believe in fairies? I think he must do and must believe in miracles surely? The difference is that Cloughie in his time reached out to make his dreams come true. Im not sure that Arsene really has any dreams any more and less sure that he d go the extra mile to bring them to fruition. I wonder what AW would make of the Baseball Ground glue pot? He d have his library of scapegoats, excuses and moans stacked up for 10 years if he had to take a team to that!!

46. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 15:00 #52477

    DW Thomas Cloughie was a 'one off' for sure. He was a very good footballer and his teams played some really good stuff. Alcohol got the better of him in later life. His style of management had a shelf-life though. A larger than life character who challenged the establishment. The Leeds players were the first real example of player-power. They were always going to fall out with someone like Clough, and did, and always likely to win the tussle, and did that too. He won a huge pay day for his few days at Elland Road, so was pleased for that. Leeds United, a very good side, but the dark destroyers of football, housing within the team some really unsavoury characters.

47. Edmund

    Jun 07, 2014, 14:55 #52476

    Hi Badarse, I do suppose everyone who posts here represent a general opinion of sorts. I've seen enough surveys on Fab to believe that most gooners want him back. If Ivan G monitors the blogs he should know what most think. As good Per Mertesacker reminded Ozil, its the fans who ultimately pay their salaries. I would really love to have someone like that on the board.

48. Ron

    Jun 07, 2014, 14:54 #52475

    JT - Fully respect and appreciate that view and its a sound one. The scenario that you've painted is a possibility agreed. However, the 'best' players have been leaving for years haven't they despite the CL continuance. They leave for all sorts of reasons, mainly money but also in no small part to a professional desire to win honours. As this has happened over the years, Wenger has brought in largely sub standard replacements, arguably better suited to Europa Cup participation, a tourny though derided on these shores, is one in which the Club has been best positioned to actually succeed in in each Season more or less since Paris 2006 with the players we ve had. As matters stand, its my view that its 'when' not 'if' for when such as the Ox, Ramsey and JW and maybe Walcott will go anyway to seek professional gratification if not greater riches. I cant really see Ozil being a candidate for being permanently happy just to make the numbers up in the CL, can you? The Club, while holding its present equilibrium also hold on to a Coach who for 8 years now at least hasnt shown the slightest propensity that he has the facets to win the CL nor perhaps to win a title. Little exists to suggest other than he could go on for years, well beyond his present next 3 of them. This means the existing status quo at the Club is intact and ****ded for many years potentially. I accept that many like this existence and are content with the Clubs lot. Perhaps you do? Many don't though too. I feel that your scenario over rates the risk that you suggest. I'm not of the view that many if any of those players there now would command team places at the top Clubs, even in the PL never mind abroad if we fell out of the CL places right now. The Club needs a prompt to re evaluate itself in my opinion if its to progress. Some times a relative fall from grace is needed to make this happen to any organisation. Im wrong of course if the Clubs present comfort zone is genuinely the best it can achieve and if so, then we all should be grateful as many on here advocate. I choose to think that the Club elects to remain at its present level though and can do so very much better, but not while the present Captains and staff are in place. Enforced change is often the best form of change to an entity in my experience of these things.

49. DW Thomas

    Jun 07, 2014, 14:45 #52474

    Watching some of Brian Clough's old interviews and an ITV doc on his life I'd never seen. Wow. A man who spoke his mind, good or bad, despite what oaths thought or said. Sure, a giant ego to be sure, but his results speak for themselves. Just enjoyed his banter with Revie and his attitude on winning pretty. Remind us of someone else? He alienated the Leeds players when he took over, but at least he spoke his honest mind. He really convinced me he wanted to be better than Revie had, doing it a better way. His "I believe in fairies" line is hilarious. Imagine Wenger saying that!

50. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 14:41 #52473

    Things are too comfortable and sensible. Best Western is a chain of hotels. Made up of independent premises, but a chain nonetheless. 'The Magnificent Seven', was not the best western. Neither was 'High Noon', 'Stagecoach', or any of John Wayne's cowboy adventures. Even 'Soldier Blue' was an also ran. The best western was undoubtedly 'Dances with Wolves'. Last done in 1960 when they won the FA Cup, and danced on the table. We won the cup and did it this year, except Rocky RIP fell off.

51. JT

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:49 #52472

    Ron are you out of your mind? Losing CL would be disastrous. Our best players would leave us. Good players would be extremely hard with no CL. Regaining it back would be extremely difficult. We would then suffer in midtable mediocrity like Liverpool.

52. jjetplane

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:42 #52471

    ... and then you offer another quid with a smirk.

53. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:42 #52470

    Hello Edmund. No chum, my post wasn't directed at you at all. It was a general offering. For what it's worth without being mawkish, you seem a really 'good gun', and I understand everyone's frustrations and disenchantment with the situation, including your own. When you believe the club is in tandem with yourself it hurts when it seems to show disdain for you. Sadly that is a form of reality, they do not know you or me. When I began my homage to AFC it was many moons ago. All those around then have all but gone. There isn't any real tangible connection, yet we play a loop in our heads-most of life is lived within our own heads-where we are important to Arsenal. There is a tenuous connection with all things Arsenal of course. I am not saying we are invisible abstracts of people, but we only figure as high as we believe. When you see any emperor isn't wearing clothes it is quite difficult to redress them in your mind's eye.

54. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:26 #52469

    Ray, in answer to your question I shall do my best. Firstly, during a sports event, concert, or making a film etc, a medic has to be present. They are a form of insurance. Everyone hopes they never have to open their magic box for the duration. Effectively they do nothing, but sit and wait, watchfully. So productivity is in suspension, often. The salary earned is unrelated. If my postman constantly delivers my letters to a neighbour I would seek a reason from the sorting office, one of my questions would definitely not be, 'how much does he earn?' So we have reduced your question-which is a little rhetorical-to, what does he do? Well as stated in previous posts a priority is seeking out replacements for certain positions. This does take time, enormous amounts of time. You earmark a player. You contact the club and ensure he is available. You glean a selling price. You contact the agent. You discuss if the player is interested or not. You go back to the club and negotiate. This can be umpteen phone calls, or it could be one. Finally after much ado you are in the home strait and press for terms and conditions. Then these have to be negotiated with the agent and player, toing and froing. You draw to a conclusion and suddenly a big-hitter steams in and offers the club an extra £2 million, and an extra £5k per week. Suddenly everything falls apart and unravels; then you have to begin again. Frustrating and protracted attempts at securing a player. That could be a day in the life.

55. Edmund

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:24 #52468

    Badarse, I presume the comments about questioning was directed to me. I have given AW the benefit of doubt for a long time. Football is not just about skill, strength or money alone. It is also about spirit and heart. Fab was a special player and his return would be a boost for the fans. So soon after losing RVP and helping MU to a title, to see Fab go to another rival is just too much.

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56. Ron

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:18 #52467

    Hi Ray. The usual battle for 4th will occupy them. Early Cup exits might be 'arranged' as we re used to as Wenger will have his work cut out just to hang in to 4th perhaps this next time. Tottenham might just have made a good call getting in their new Coach. They do have some players there who have much to offer under such a Coach i suspect. Chelsea and City will battle for the title ultimately. Utd will be in there and i think Van Gaal will have them back in the CL places for sure. It leaves just 4th to go for. Liverpool (if they keep Saurez to play with Sturridge) will be very sound, but the CL may just take a bit from them as they re acclimatize to it. Everton will produce a bit more of the same i guess. The crowd chasing the elusive 4th, will be ever the more vibrant next Season Ray as i see it. Arsenal are always at risk of falling out of it, but the fates seem always to conspire v the team closest to applying the coup de grace to Arsenal slipping in late. Will it happen next Season? Possibly i think, unless Wenger makes some serious signings at RB, DM and striker. Its not nice to suggest but to be brutally honest, im one whos of the view that falling out of the CL places will prove hugely beneficial to Arsenal in the longer term. Such is the whiff of ingrained humdrum at the Club, it will take a seismic blow to the Clubs head to shake it from its inertia i feel.

57. Jimmy Osmond.

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:08 #52466

    Never stop and they never die/They just keep on puffin/How they multiply/Crazy Horses/Crazy Horses. Greetings BADASS!

58. Ray

    Jun 07, 2014, 13:02 #52465

    Ron - What do you think Arsenal will do next season?

59. Ron

    Jun 07, 2014, 12:49 #52464

    Bard/SKG - i believe JM is into Phase 2 of his return to the Bridge now. Hes come back and been very smart. Fairly quiet by his standards, took a look at what he'd got, given them chances and thought they fell away, was still quite close to a title win. Now, hes easing the likes of FL away, Terry on borrowed time, hes more or less telling his strikers theyve gone or as good as gone and bring in such as Costa, maybe Fabregas plus one or two others doubtless. Speaking as much of being a footie observer as Arsenal follower these days, seeing CF in a team like he s assembling there will be good. More importantly, good for Cesc Fabs too.His best time could yet be to come at Chelsea, where he ll be protected and asked to play a game that he can excel at, rather than the hybrid game Wenger expected of him. I'm not sure arriving at Chelsea will really interfere with his Arsenal ties and leanings (if they seriously exist of course), not on the wage he ll be offered there. Chelsea for the Title next Season for me. It was only lack of goals that stopped it this last time i feel.

60. jjetplane

    Jun 07, 2014, 12:42 #52463

    RON nails on heads re the 'invincibles' who at times gave us truly majestic moments but I am sure the historical accolade is being over kind to a team who really did not triumph in the realm of big trophies. And what has happened since the fortunate condition that brought all those titans together at one time? A gradual dilution on the pitch of an ambition to win things though it is questionable whether Wenger really has that battling ambition in his own locker. Think we might say that his administration role is where he seems happiest and given his academic background there is no suprise at footballing devolution at the club. I do not see a turning under present management because the philosophy is too ****ded now and Wenger also the kind of players around him who still find it hard to compete in any consistent, telling fashion. All that without mentioning coach-in-waiting Arteta. Heard it here first ....

61. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 12:41 #52462

    Bard, every aspect of modern football, with it's Machiavellian chicaneries tempts and lures the brain into meltdown. Yes my post was just an aside, tossed into the ring for people to savour, or dismiss. I am a numbers man, and have aligned myself on this subject with westlower-I know he and I see much in life in numerical terms. Here is another. I suggested Fabregas would cost £55 million over four years-that is his cost! If for convenience we say we play 55 games per season then for each match we pay Fabregas a quarter of a million pounds. Half that number and he costs/charges us £500,000 per match. Suck on that non-numbers people, it just doesn't add up, does it? Ozwald my under the weather, under the counter chap, I did say 'death is stranger', not 'a' stranger. Still, as there is no animate individual named death I am unperturbed. No concern about tempting fate either because that is also just a human concept; if they existed and came-a-knocking they'd be wearing Spud shirts I am sure. Wars are not good things, but when someone treads on your toes and threatens your loved ones even a pacifist usually steps up to the plate. A tiny mouse would bare it's teeth to a huge aggressor when cornered. Had the beach landings not been a success then the world would have become a different place, it's why I want to step on any tiny weed representing fascism.

62. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 07, 2014, 12:26 #52461

    On balance Bard I would not sign Cesc - we need a RB, a proper defensive midfielder and a World class striker and that will take up most of our budget. However no one will be signed until August because it will save Arsenal up to 3 million on wages during the close season. As for Cesc taking us apart at the Bridge - they did a pretty decent job on us last season. So with or without the Catalan - Chelsea will still take at least 4 points of us next season!

63. Ozzie

    Jun 07, 2014, 12:14 #52460

    Badarse, watch out for the Stormcloud - you can never tell where he will turn up but, being a simpleton first and a Gooner second he couldn't resist your 'death is a stranger.'Beyond thought lies the pristine - no place for a philosopher. Enjoy your coop of teee lads & blessthose brave men who fought on the beaches - lambs to the slaughter - for what?

64. Bard

    Jun 07, 2014, 12:01 #52459

    Badarse; you comment on wages is important in the sense that it has to be factored in. However its irrelevant in another sense. Any top player is going to cost a fortune in wages. We would need to get Arteta, Rosicky and Diaby off our wage bill to accommodate Cesc. What your point does highlight is that you don't get very much for you £100m these days. Two top players at most. The other point is that Ivan the Terrible made it very clear that we can now afford these to players unless that was a porkie. I read that currently Cesc is on his way to Chelsea for around £27m so the debate is now dead and we can look forward to him taking us apart at the Bridge. My Chelsea mates are inundating me with texts thanking Wenger for his generosity.

65. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 11:47 #52458

    My post applied to you too Reiss.

66. Reiss

    Jun 07, 2014, 11:43 #52457

    Ron - That would be completely out of character as it would be an honourable decision and a tacit admittance of failure. I fear that he will never do any such thing. Arsenal supporters are left to put up with The Fraudulent Snob until he drops. We are stuck with Monsieur Wenger until he decides (out of his Almighty Wisdom Ness) to "step aside" after selecting a weaker manager to succeed him in a way that he will not be outshined ala Sir Alex Ferguson at Man Yoo. But that time is not near yet. Give or take another 4 to 5 years....

67. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 07, 2014, 11:40 #52456

    In many ways Ron not signing Cesc is perhaps a signal that even AW realizes he has to change how the midfield operates.Or he thinks he will have Diaby next season .....and that will be just like a ...... zzzzzzzzzzzz.

68. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 11:33 #52455

    Ever the one to ruffle feathers I give you Joseph Smith. The founder of the Mormon schism of Christianity. Not particularly well educated, this man spoke convincingly and hoodwinked many. The Mormon church boasts between 12-13million( they may even claim more). Now if an individual can come up with nonsense, like he was visited by an angel, went and found a buried, huge book of gold( a man couldn't have lifted such a book, but let's not let facts get in the way), translated Egyptian hieroglyphics at a time when none on the planet had deciphered any, telling the masses that it said Jesus had visited the USA; then imparting the message to the faithful after having a tete a tete with god, yet carrying the day, well then anything is possible, even when not remotely plausible. Now just saying something does not make it so. Saying it twice doesn't make it twice as bad/truthful, but repeating it allows the theme to take on a life of it's own, but it isn't reality, guys! It is a point of view, an interpretation of a combination of circ*mstances, all open to any individual's assessment. Agendas and desires become tangled and misleading. I have been assessed and pigeon-holed by a few on this site. We all do, all our lives. Usually the denouement is a long way from the truth. My family and friends wouldn't recognise me in the criticisms laid at my door. Take a structure, drape a believable set of assumptions, slip in a few bent truths, add a slice of misrepresentation, evoke the passions in the audience, offer a spark then fan the flames and suddenly you have a howling mob on a witch hunt. All predictable behavioural patterns. The next time someone tells you this man is arrogant, question the evidence. A coward? Oh, really? Says who? Thinks he is the Arsenal? Come on, please! This is conjecture; just veiled character assassinations to achieve an end. Feathers duly ruffled? We won the cup!

69. Ron

    Jun 07, 2014, 10:54 #52454

    Morning SKG - Wengers version of 'possession play'( i use the word loosely as his teams ability to keep possession is poor - esp v the top teams)is outdated too. The game now is about power and pace, laced with some midfield artistry, but not governed by it. Wenger was beguiled by Barca of 2008 - 2012. Other coaches just saw them as a bespoke, one off team plus a genius at his peak in young Messi. Without that little fella ( a powerful lad too in his own right) there would have been no halcyon days of tika tika. Wenger thought and still thinks he can do it with what hes had and got at Arsenal! Staggering and yes, laughable even. The younger coaches in the PL are well ahead of trends in the game as is Mourinho, the latter who always seeks power, nous and guile first, delicate artistry second. AW is a declined dinosaur and should have the humility and dignity to call it quits as his nemesis Fergie has done. Go Wenger, for heavens sake and give the Arsenal back to Arsenal.

70. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 07, 2014, 10:25 #52453

    Some great posts here lads, Ron I follow you all the way about the young players - asked to do far too much at too young an age. The lack of a Tony Adams on the pitch is again pivotal to our problems away to the top teams - he could change it on the pitch and would not bat an eyelid if it offended Wenger. It could have been so different had AW signed Alonso and kept Gilberto, then we could have used Cesc and Diaby more sparingly and cancelled the Denilson experiment.I fear the Ox will end up as the next Diaby unless we bring some more variety and tactical nous to our play - that of course means a change of manager and the coaching methods. Our overplayed possession football invites the heavy late challenges that ruin players careers - however the kind challenges that this team have accepted over the past few seasons would never of happened against previous teams, mainly because the fear of retribution would, on it's own, have been sufficient a deterrent.

71. Edmund

    Jun 07, 2014, 10:03 #52452

    I can only hope Cesc Fabregas (the Fab capt to me) going to Chelsea is media hogwash since it is not mentioned in the club website. Almost every gooner would love for him to return except Piers Morgan. Each transfer window brings me closer to sharing Wenger Out's viewpoint that AW is arrogant and increasingly incompetant in the transfer market. Since Alan Pardew showed up in Newcastle,AW seems to have fled the market for French players. Giving up Fab is another slap in the face for fans. The only difference is that I will always want the club to win regardless of whether it is deserved or dumb luck of a bumbling professor.

72. Ron

    Jun 07, 2014, 9:26 #52451

    DW - Morning there. Always very much like and respect your posts too mate. Good memories on Cesc too. He s a smashing lad i reckon. Had he not have left though, Wenger would have ruined him. He was flogging the lad to death, playing him when half fit and playing too much for too long after injuries. Hes done it to Wilshere to an extent. As you clearly know, anybody whos played to a decent level will tell you its fatal to do that.Cesc had to escape his clutches or i venture his career could have ended early. He was being asked to be tough tackler, a tracker back, the whole thing, when hes actually just designed to be a schemer, pulling the strings of play. Wenger never gave him a minder, an 'insurance man' as i call them. A player who exacts vengeance on others who over step the mark with our players. Such types are often aggressive personalities and Wenger suggests to me he no longer wants and nor can he cope with such pithy characters in his dressing room and hasn't done for years. I was at Stoke the day AR was pole axed by that animal Shawcross. The tackle wasnt the only one that cd have caused that injury that day and other players were lucky it wasnt them. Destiny made it AR s time to suffer. Arsenal were running scared well before the injury. A couple of hard lads, dishing a few tasty ones back at Stoke could have arrested that situation that day. Every team needs a Gattuso type or two in english football on days like that. Wenger gets paid so much, seemingly not to know or more to the point hes too arrogant to accept it. Find me a team thats ever won a title here without at least 1 if not 2 of these types. I don't believe there is one. Cesc doesn't need more of Wengers methods at 27. Agree on Arshavin. Ruined by never being played in his correct position and also asked to cover his full backs etc etc. Lunacy. It was never his job and never should have been. The lad was simply not designed, nor schooled to do it. Its ever likely he lost interest in Wenger and Arsenal. PS Ive just noticed Marks post. I can see his sentiment too. I cant stand Wenger either. How so many, for so long have fallen into his thrall, ill never know. I suppose his outward urbane charisma and false charms have carried him far as that type often have the ability to do. For me, hes an aloof, skulking,power seeking, snidey snake in the grass who lacks character and bottle. His teams have fallen well short in the character and bottle stakes for so long too and it isnt surprising as every team reflects its own Coaches attributes over time. They never say it for fear of getting into trouble, but it seems likely that nearly all of his fellow coaches down the years and now, perceive him in a very negative way.It doesn't surprise me at all.

73. radfordkennedy

    Jun 07, 2014, 8:09 #52450

    ron..badarse..dw Thomas..kc..have enjoyed reading your posts regarding CF an exchange of views without someone being called an idiot terrific...personaly I think it just comes down to priorities and funds,it sounds as though AW has a lot less to play with than first thought so another small lightweight midfielder is not a priority..unless they fancy a swap with JW going the other way..for me its absolutely essential we spend the money on a striker and a keeper,if Arteta leaves I wonder if TV5 will stay and play the DM role

74. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2014, 7:16 #52449

    Good morning to you DW Thomas. I have to state this clearly so my view of Fabregas isn't confused with anyone else's. As much as possible, with a lifetime's practise I can at least claim that I try to be my own man, and employ independent thought processes most times. I think Fabregas is all you say! I was his greatest fan, spotted his world class ability before many in my tribe and championed his football throughout. I began to slip and slide away as you mentioned those specifics against AV, the Tiny Totts etc, and what about his last minute winner when the ten men came back from two down to win the game up at Blackburn? His goal celebration, striking of his shinbone to emphasise Aaron's injury. I had a buddy who said he was unsure of him as he thought Spanish players didn't settle well here. I remember telling him that he is not Spanish, before this he is a Catalan, Catalan's are a different breed. I was right. (They were the last to surrender during the Spanish Civil War). Always difficult to revisit the nearly men, I thought Alex Song was destined for big things. I noted his long pass ability very early in his career and again went on record when he was loaned to Charlton, saying he will be a 'Big Gun'. Sometimes the chemistry isn't quite right. You discover a formula for success, you try to replicate it but the players next up are slightly different, you tinker, and the game changes, you jiggle it but the game continues to alter, then an integral part of the jigsaw leaves (his choice), and you have to reshuffle. All this when the richer kids just buy off the peg brand new suits. I think, despite the differences clearly visible between our outlooks on certain issues we share a love and joy of our club. I meant it when I said it would probably be good to watch the lads together-that's if you are cool about dancing and being kissed by a man every time we score! My young grandsons laugh and attempting to avoid it, try to cover themselves when I jump from the seat to run and plant a celebratory kiss on their heads, they never succeed. Good old Arsenal.

75. Ray

    Jun 07, 2014, 6:23 #52448

    I don’t know why everyone is surprised didn’t you realize we’re a business not a football club. This football club died a long long time ago. Wenger isn’t a football manager but a businessman something I figured out a long time ago. Arsene Wenger is the biggest conman in world football. And he’s pulled the wool over all your eyes again.Can anyone explain what he does for his £8m per annum salary?

76. Mark

    Jun 07, 2014, 4:20 #52447

    Honestly I thought Wenger couldn't do worse than RVP to United but he has. Letting Cesc go to Chelsea is the worst thing he has ever done. Honestly I'm devestated by this and its affecting my real life. This charlatan loves killing the fans. When will this Charlatan leave? When will this torture end? Haven't we suffered enough watching RVP in a United shirt but now Cesc is a Chelsea shirt? Whats next? Rambo and JW in United, Chelsea, City shirts as well? Him becoming Arsenal manager is the worst thing that has happened to Arsenal. This charlatan has killed us fans for the last decade and its very hard to support with this dictator at the helm. Just leave our beloved club alone you charlatan, stop making us fans suffer, I have had enough for you, I wish you had never joined the club. I can't wait for Maureen and Cesc to embarass you with a 9-0 so everyone can see what a fraud you are. I really hope we get Athletic Bilbao in the qualifiers as I know your average lot of cowards will be done by the ruthless, agressive Basque lads. Its about time you learnt a lesson. Look at what you have done to a supporter wanting his own club to lose so the fans will turn you against you and kick you out of the club. if it were up to me I would sack you and you would never be allowed near the corporate bowl. Wenger hates Arsenal, absolutely despises it leave my club alone you charlatan.

77. DW Thomas

    Jun 07, 2014, 4:04 #52446

    Ron, Badman, respect and love your posts. I love to argue,respectfully, my wife loathes it. Tonight at a friends backyard party, I watched my two boys play with friends and had some great discussions with male friends, none about sports for once. Intelligent conversations about politics, crime, law, etc. Thats what I love about this site, the intelligent discussions with the odd bit or added humor about something we all love/loved. Not signing Cesc to me is another sign of the stagnation of this club and a flashing neon sign about or inability to buy the needed players that will push us into champions territory. Football fans, mostly, are fans because they love sport, the thrill of winning via their team, and to cheer for their favorite overpaid, pampered princes that could probably care less about our lives. Cesc gave us some great displays. I will never forget the game against Aston Villa where he came on to turn the tide, almost singlehandedly. Or his slaloming goal against the Totts recently. He is truly World Class. So, I respect your views on him, his past playing days, and how you deem him either unnecessary or just not the player type you like or we need. Yet, in my humble opinion as a player who played at a decent level, coached youth teams for 15 years, and still plays at 40, he had that passing vision that I truly adore. Direct, forward passing. Not tippi tappy that leads no where. He was always a step ahead. And that team Nasri, Song, RVP, could have been the next Invincibles, but Wenger never got the formula quite right, did he. Back then, just having Almunia alone cost us dearly too many times. Even Arshavin I think should have been so much better, but for me Wenger has a knack of ruining players by playing them in the wrong positions. Even Ramsey recently on the wings looked poor and out of sorts. If Wenger were to go out and get Aguero, a top DM, and a top right back, plus a decent backup keeper, I would have to say, ok, he's finally got it. I just don't think I'll ever, ever, being saying that. Do any of you?? Ron and Badarse, go,back and watch Cesc's pass to Nasri before Arshavin's goal vs Barca. That is what I mean. Very few players can do/see those passes at that speed. I think Ozil has it, but does he have that required mettle too?

78. BADARSE

    Jun 06, 2014, 22:18 #52445

    Incidentally CFC have just saved around £8.5 million per year on Lampard's wages. Everything has an influence on decisions taken. If Fabregas wants say £120k per week and a four year contract then we are talking of a very big commitment by the club, £30 million to buy and £25 million in wages over the four years. Should we utilise £55 million to get a player for an overloaded position?

79. Ron

    Jun 06, 2014, 22:18 #52444

    DW - Hi there. Can see all your points on Wenger and can see your anguish too. I used to feel like you. Wenger and his teams stole my inner most zeal for Arsenal quite some years ago. i never bought into his concept of a team of 7 or 8 flyweights and a couple of middleweights as makeweights doing poor Barca impressions for so many years either. On the old BBC 606 boards many of us used to state we felt that the style was actually quite tedious and got hammered out of sight for saying it. Those days, the idle chat was about signing Essien, Drogba came up too! and even Lorik Cana and oddly enough Ya Ya Toure and Shay Given who was a top keeper then amongst many others of course, my memory escapes me on so many real men type players, who didn't fear or shirk. Here we are 7/8 years on still hankering for the same thing. Its pathetic like you say and was why for season 10/11 i dropped the season ticket and have never wanted one back, though in truth ive wanted Wenger out since 2004. His appalling, sulking, griping, gutless reaction to the loss at OT in game 49 that lead to 6 months of passionless sulkie football has always been the day he (and quite a few of his sulker type players too) had gone their distance for me. The years that followed were a case of tolerating him which eventually eroded my desire to see his feeble , passionless teams in all honesty. I went to games only because mates did really and as we had done for decades. Of that clutch of 9 of us, theres 2 left who still do the majority of home games with whom i still enjoy 3 or 4 away days out per season if a ticket comes up as a freebie or a cheapie. Thats all Arsenal have from my wallet now. Your expressed feelings on here are old hat in truth DW. Many match going fans have felt like you for years, they really have. I accept that your probably a lot younger though and that now youre at the stage of having got to where many of us reached a considerable time ago though chappie. Going on to CF. As ive said hes a good player. Will he change that team Wengers got? In my view, no. Wd i want to pay 30 odd Million for him? No, I wouldnt. Was he really a great Skipper? Not on my nellie was he, in my view. That Club hasnt had a proper Skipper since Tony Admas. Vieira wasnt a great leader of men either in my opinion. Great footballer, but a Wenger acolyte through and through and was made Captain as there wasnt any alternatives as indeed there wasnt when they gave it to Fabregas. This feel for CF is borne of a lost love, a desire to turn back the clock to mythical time when he graced the Club with great leadership and genuine challenges to the top boys. Im sorry mate but its a fallacy. He never did it. When he was there with old 1 season in 8 RVP, Nasri, Song and Co they didnt hack it and wdt now if they came back. They had their chance and there go, they even had a few good moments, but the past iis where CF and their like should stay for me. The Club needs root and branch change starting with a new top Coach who wants to buy a few top, able, physically durable players who dont shrink from a fight or three. Its not going to happen with Wenger. Personally i wouldn't let the guy near my cheque book as i dont think he can create a team that befits a real PL challenge if you gave him 200 million to be honest. He dropped lucky in his early years there inheriting those guys who were playing then. Yes he created the unbeaten team too. Credit due, but they 'managed ' that team for him on the pitch and did what they did despite him not because of him. It was team that ad libbed its way through matches time and time again. Were they really invincible? Not in my view. They were useless in the CL by and large and never really won enough titles to get close to such an accolade. It was ironic that Wengers best tilt at the CL was with a defence that he was forced to throw together and hope for the best. Keown shaped them and they almost did it. Wenger for me, has been a lucky guy for many years and has bordered on being a con man.Hes still getting lucky as the recent FAC win bears testimony too. I respect and admire your heart felt passion DW, but ill be frank and tell you that youre wasting it on Arsenal mate. The power brokers there and Wenger deserve each other. The likes of CF wouldnt cause a ripple in that Club, save a few ooh ahhs, 'we love him hes come home' plaudits. Its pointless as when that wears off, whats left? Wenger and his imitation tika taka thats all. From Cescs point of view too, it would be a mistake to go back there at 27. Hes got 3 or 4 years top football left. Hes best off at Chelsea or City or even Utd to truly maximise the result of a return to these shores.

80. BADARSE

    Jun 06, 2014, 22:01 #52443

    DW Thomas, you have to take emotion out of the equation when making such a decision. It is difficult I know, as I can become impassioned at the drop of a hat, however I can focus. This is one such time. No need for anyone's unkind interpretations of Arsens's choices. It's all too easy to poke someone with a very long stick. I have said I would love to see Fabregas back, but we are top-heavy in midfield attacking positions and we cannot just rope in another player, even Fabregas. I am ambivalent towards him. I do not begrudge him leaving for his own reasons but every Arsenal footballer has left AFC for their own reasons. You deem it acceptable behaviour, some might not. We have to concentrate on what is, not what could/might/or wish to be. This is not an admonishment, just highlighting a difference. I am now really keen on seeing a RB arriving, that will whet my immediate appetite, also finding out if the Ox injury isn't as serious as I fear it may be. I bet you are great to be around when watching the lads.

81. KC

    Jun 06, 2014, 21:46 #52442

    Bard it's all soul destroying a board who do not have the desire and want to match the fan base. Big clubs win trophies and do all they can to achieve that, bottom line end of story. If Cesc goes to cfc I wont blame him I blame AFC I try and keep bias out of the argument. The concern is that Mourinho is adding bite, steel and determination to an already quality squad with the purchases of Matic, Costa and possibly Cesc it's exactly what our squad requires as I said soul destroying.

82. DW Thomas

    Jun 06, 2014, 20:25 #52441

    Even Arseblog today deems Cesc worthy of a return despite our current midfield! That says it all, non? But our clueless club won't do it will they. No Arsenal fan should begrudge Cesc for leaving. He was going to the best club in the world at the time, leaving a club that has now become flopping fish! Plus it was his childhood club. When he left he and others said he could/would return to Arsenal one day. We should be jumping to resign him. A proven winner with gusto, grit, and skill. But, no. Watch us sign some players no one has ever heard of or wants. We do it each season. Wenger lives in a bubble world where he is king of all he surveys. What power, control! Yet, remember this. He has only been close to winning the CL once, and he had the Invincibles to do it! 16 years or whatever? Not one! Never gets us over the line. Never tries to do something different. So often this team bores me now. I used to get excited for games, especially versus the big boys. Football without passion is pretty much meaningless to me. My desire for Cesc coming back is from passion...to see the team do better, to see our once great captain in the red and white again. We all know what he can bring.

83. jjetplane

    Jun 06, 2014, 18:25 #52440

    Carry on up the Amazon Jack. 'Riveting' 'one for all the family' 'will have you on the edge of your seat' 'Arsenal faithful will lap it up'. Cannot wait for the sequel Jack - the only way is Manchester'. This is all very disruptive and will not help our cause. Next post will look at the french doc 'A postman dreams' .... Enough!

84. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 06, 2014, 17:57 #52439

    Bard, it wasn't a rant good shout and your right it ain't gonna happen not as long as this regime are in place especially this old has been we have as a manager running the show but some will Carry on believing regardless (stop it sid). Good point about Fabregas just do a trawl to see what all the wenger luvvies are saying about him, cesc who? who is this Spaniard? never heard of him, who does he play for? etc,etc, well he could soon be playing for the chavs (they weren't saying that when he was here)just because their messiah didn't or doesn't seem interested it would have been a different hymn and praise all round if he'd have given us all a heart attack and re signed him. Your also right about the FA Cup, as i've already said the trophy that saved wengers job when the realisation sets in i hope everyone thinks it was worth it.

85. BADARSE

    Jun 06, 2014, 17:04 #52438

    A personal view and all that maguiresbridge but I don't think there was a man or woman from the hard core of the 'Carry On' team, who didn't think ethics was the county to the east of London.

86. Edmund

    Jun 06, 2014, 16:22 #52437

    It really hurts to see our players enriching rival teams due to penny pinching by AW/IG. Giving up the first rights to Fabregas and sending him to Chelsea is as unthinkable as selling RVP to MU.Great clubs like Bayern systematically undermine their rivals by buying their best. We seem to be doing the opposite. In terms of buying the right player, there can be no doubt Fab belongs with Arsenal. Why can't AW see the economics of keeping Fab and Sagna. How many more players are required to fill the many roles they can during the injury hit later parts of any season? Fab can play as striker, attacking midfield, wing, defensive midfield. Sagna played all the back positions. Could he have been tempted to stay with a better offer?

87. Bard

    Jun 06, 2014, 16:06 #52436

    KC; those are well made points and in my more deluded moments I think that we will morph into a top club but it aint gonna happen. Judging from some of the more arrogant responses to my article, we are a top club because we do things the right way and we are above selling our soul to the devil. Putting that claptrap to one side the problem the club have is keeping us believing in the project. I don't believe the FA cup will satisfy a huge number of fans. It is blindingly obvious that we need reinforcements for next season if we are to stay in the top 6 but my view is that the club have completely lost touch with the fan base and don't believe the rebellion evident after Villa ail resurface. Our response to the Cesc issue is a case in point. He was a legend for us and if the reports are true wanted to come back to us. Now he may end up at Chelsea or one of the other top cubs. Can you imagine the furore among the fans if he becomes a roaring success at one of these clubs while we struggle. Talk about an own goal not buying Cesc is a massive mistake and will come back to haunt us. Can they not see how galling it is for us to see RVP leading Untd, Cesc at Chelsea, Nasri, Clichy and Sagna at City, its heartbreaking. Here endth the rant

88. KC

    Jun 06, 2014, 15:42 #52435

    In all seriousness if we see no change from previous summers then the whole move, ground build becomes pointless. Success will create wealth and so on, failure creates income loss. The definition of success is debatable from fans view and the boards view but finishing outside the top four is failure for all. I do believe there is a substantial transfer kitty available to use, if you look at players in and out over the last 5 years, the fact we have off loaded some high earners and the added sponsorship deals it all points to a hefty fund. The problem I believe is the manager he can not see the bigger picture, the possibility of buying a player that costs that in fact could be worth far more in the future if you have bought wisely. He has lost the Midas touch in terms of judging talent added to his frugal, old fashioned and stubborn nature it means he makes bad judgement calls. As an attending fan all I ask is for him to spend what he has and be honest with us not a lot to ask but sadly somewhere along the way he has lost a degree of competitiveness and this allows him to accept 2nd, 3rd and mainly fourth, he appears content to be the bridesmaid.

89. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 06, 2014, 14:14 #52434

    R/K 55578, good one and you can imagine the excuses there would have been for that, no doubt it would have been somebody else's fault.

90. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 06, 2014, 13:09 #52433

    KC, yes that's another subject the carry on team of Sid James, Kenneth, Charles, Bernard, and Babs could easily make a very funny movie out of, Carry on Believing, (very apt indeed)like all the others it could be re run and played over and over again and never go out of date.

91. radfordkennedy

    Jun 06, 2014, 13:09 #52432

    Badarse..you are quite correct in saying mistakes in timing cost lives,the biggest being the supposed softening up bomber raid due to go in shortly before the beach landings themselves,unfortunately the aircraft were slightly late which resulted in the bomb aimers hesitating on pressing the tit for fear of hitting their own men which resulted in the bombs destroying more farms and cattle than gun batteries and more importantly MG42 posittions,they were on the point of asking for the landing craft to come back and evacuate the beach when a USS captain went against orders gave the command to go broadside and let go with everything he had and took out the casemates fine lines indeed...and you're right about the weather had Ike not said GO the next suitable mid tide would have been 6 days later and trying to keep 5000+ships and 250,000 men hidden and on lock down would have been impossible....anyway I didn't bring any claret back but some great Calvados and some local hooch so untill next thursday I shall be getting back to that wild cider life cheers good health

92. A Cornish Gooner

    Jun 06, 2014, 12:43 #52431

    'it's (sic) wondrous outcome, left gaping holes in errors'. What does that remind you of?

93. jjetplane

    Jun 06, 2014, 12:33 #52430

    Biggest problem at Arsenal, apart from the ground, the price of chips, twitter, selfies, the 'manager', the board, the four fans has to be Arteta. He personifies the non-football strategy where the game becomes the art of compromise. During this we have the fake theatricals of concern displayed with referees smiling inwardly at the plastic virtualism that drives the 'emirates experience'. Problem with this duck/coconut philosophy is that every now and then a sharpshooter turns up and knocks it all for six (indeed!). The problem may try to infest itself at 'home' this coming so I hope the new FB can put his mobile down long enough to see what has just passed him. As you were.

94. BADARSE

    Jun 06, 2014, 12:20 #52429

    radfordkennedy, along with all that perhaps the coup de grace was the weather. Had we/they missed this opportunity then we are unsure of when we could have attempted it again, so the timing was intrinsic in the eventual victory, I think. Brave men indeed, but the whole operation, despite it's amazingly well orchestrated logistics and it's wondrous outcome, left gaping holes in errors. Many on Omaha died due to timing errors and misjudgements. I bet you came back with some nice claret!

95. Ron

    Jun 06, 2014, 12:07 #52428

    R/K - Old Arsene must be older than i thought. I didn't know he was at the Little Big Horn under Gen George Custer or is he perhaps George Custer in another life perhaps? Its certainly worth pondering. Interesting times we live in.

96. radfordkennedy

    Jun 06, 2014, 12:07 #52427

    Jeff...you're quite correct mate they thought we wouldn't have learned from the disaster of Dieppe in 42 and would again attack a heavily defended port,but as you rightly say brilliant intelligence and deception work helped win the day,and you rightly state he wasn't very bright because the man who tumbled where we would come because of its startling resemblence to the beaches of sicily was ignored..thank God!

97. jeff wright

    Jun 06, 2014, 11:17 #52426

    radfordkennedy, some credit must be given to the allies inteligence services for duping the dozey dictatorwith an elaborate scheme into believing that the main attack would come at the pas de calais . He thought the Normandy one was a diversion to lure him into moving his tanks there . He was not very bright really behind all of his ranting oratory.

98. BADARSE

    Jun 06, 2014, 9:49 #52425

    I don't quite share the analogy radfordkennedy, but I loved the post. A very poignant day today. Oddly I have spent the week with a number of Germans, some left today, making their way through France, the rest leave tomorrow. Life is strange, but then death is stranger.

99. radfordkennedy

    Jun 06, 2014, 9:45 #52424

    arsene.ARSENE..WAKE UP ARSENE!!!One day a group of men fearful for their jobs and status refused to wake a sleeping dictator with news that the opposition were banging on the door and bringing in re-inforcements some of which were the best in the world.Finally when roused from his slumber he decided that in his delusioned state of mind that no matter what the opposition do the men at his disposal would win the fray and that quality re-inforcements could wait.Alas the opposition kept coming inflicting heavy defeats upon his ever tiring men,only when it was too late did he realise that his men were mostly made up of those who were recouperating from previous injuries sustained in other battles and untried youngsters who were in reality not up for the fight,what little quality he did have were running themselves into the ground until exhaustion got the better of them.If only he'd listened and reinforced earlier with experienced hardend quality men of the highest order,things may have been very different....Funny how history repeats itself..

100. BADARSE

     Jun 06, 2014, 9:32 #52423

     Thank goodness I, and people of a kindred spirit do disagree with you WENGER OUT. I would feel as if I was living my life in the shadows. Don't despair for me Argentina, er WENGER OUT. Try not to personalise matters so much, as people are different, and see things in a different way. Surely that must be apparent. It does not make a person holding a slightly different view or approach wrong. There are enough little neo-nazis spawning others without the same narrowness being logged on a football site. I have fairly regular run ins with some on this site, not because of the differences of opinions we hold, but because of their bumptious and aggressive narrow-mindedness. Just think different-not right or wrong.

101. Bard

     Jun 06, 2014, 7:29 #52421

     Chill guys, it's sad that Cesc isn't coming back by aside from that it's as we were. We don't do business early. What's happening at the moment is what I understand is called managing expectations. Ie don't expect a raft of big signings. Ivan says we now have £70m which equates to 2 good players. There is no cause for misery unless you believed this transfer window would be different. I have stated before this season will be brutal with regard to the competition and unless we substantially invest in quality players we will be spat out the back door. Forget winning anything 4th will be a miracle.

102. BADARSE

     Jun 06, 2014, 7:10 #52420

     Good forenoon Ozzie. A trip to see the Angles? Hope you have a great time buddy. Yes, we are still almost certainly going to be very careful and selective in the transfer market. It is sadly a sensible route that we take. Modern top football is so complex nowadays that it's almost like playing three-dimensional chess. A beautiful still, and warm day here, the only storm clouds gathering are in the minds of those not yet able to quite grasp the realities of life-well at least life in microcosm as in a football club, though I think if you cannot understand this there is not a great deal of hope in expecting people to grasp the understandings of wider aspects. Hibbee Gooner are you out there? The USA made it's first pronouncement in Belgium yesterday as I suggested they would a while back. They put their weight behind Scotland staying as a part of the UK, and the UK staying as a part of Europe. Told you so. ha ha. Keep the Faith.

103. Ozzie

     Jun 06, 2014, 6:08 #52419

     Badarse, put that red kettle on & get out the Uncle Tobys, Iam on my way to pommieland - to get a few of those lame egosoff the grass. Regards signings I think we ought have no expectations, that way there'll be no disappointments. If weresign ourselves to more of the same we open ourselves to a few surprises, maybe? Cesc to Chelsea will be a hard bullet,though. Grrrr!

104. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 05, 2014, 22:08 #52418

     DW, spot on mate but it's getting old alright but like the manager it's been getting old for a long time now, but at least a lot of fans KNOW they're going to be taken for mugs and fed bullshyte every season, unlike others who swallow it and burp and think it's going to be different and things will change. Yes the FA Cup the trophy that saved OGL's job i hope when the realisation does set in everyone thinks it was worth it.

105. BADARSE

     Jun 05, 2014, 21:01 #52417

     Evening DW Thomas. I joke but do understand, what is your plight. I don't have less passion than your good self, many that know me may measure most below mine. No anger or irritation either, though frustration fits the bill. The way we are set up it appears clear that we shall have unbroken continuity, at least for the coming season, however my reading of circ*mstances is sometimes awry, though generally only marginally. Remember I was the innocent recipient of a load of personally directed nonsense six months ago. Why? Because I had insisted that I could not see a new arrival in January, and so it came to pass. I had only been the advanced guard, or the messenger if you like. People, in real life couldn't get away with what they do on a site like this. I had many chats about the likely outcome and it was proven to be on the money. The people I spoke with respected my insight, on here they think I am a blue meanie. Having said I don't expect too much activity I would be delighted were I to be proved wrong, but we shall see. As I have suggested we need a RB and back up keeper replacement, perhaps another CB to compensate the deputising of Sagna in that position. Three men. Only then do I consider who may depart, and who may replace any departures. There may not be any! I don't pretend to know what goes on behind the scenes, but make reasonably good stabs at the likely outcome. I await with interest, not yet anticipation, nor excitement, but neither do I sit wringing my hands bemoaning my fate. We are just a little different in our equanimity perhaps. Let's hope it is a successful close season. We shall see. Today was the first day I didn't wear the badge on a shirt, though my socks are AFC ones-I switched to my Che Guevara one, ha ha. Oh, and not only do I have a red kettle, but also a red toaster! Good old Arsenal.

106. Ron

     Jun 05, 2014, 20:19 #52416

     Historys repeated itself at Old Trafford a bit but they wont allow another 1971 - 1974 period to occur again for certain. Then for Moyes, read Frank O Farrell, a week appointment then who cdt handle the heat of the kitchen there and lacked the badges of honour to clean out the aged old brigade who were leading the Club to the doldrums. Enter Toomy Doc, a nasty blighter who had no qualms about getting shot of Charlton, Law Stiles and Co (in fact he relished it as he knew they had appointed him to get the 'blood on his hands' which the Club didnt have the nads to want to spill at the time)). Van Gaal is cut from the same cloth with the same remit i think. Utd will be back before we know it.

107. KC

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:58 #52415

     Ron, I am hoping upon hope that the club don't carry on believing they can get by. Only football know nothing's would consider Utd will not improve VG is a proven manager and straight away will command respect so even without buying they will be better and they will buy. Liverpool can not be dismissed from top four consideration therefore the holy grail of champions league failure plus a disillusioned fan base and squad will hit the profit line which will upset our greedy board. They are greedy but not stupid and that's what gives me hope but if it fails to materialise this summer I will be another supporter who chucks the ST in, a lying board with no respect for its fans can only count on a love of a club for so long in terms of my money.

108. Ron

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:56 #52414

     DW - Right on there. Its taken many of us ages and others even longer to catch on, but you and many others are there now. Your only action in as much as it matters much in the modern game is to end your frustrations and withdraw paying your matchday money, if not your support of your Club.Its hard at first but you'll acclimatise. It is a Club that thinks little of its fans, its true. I suppose to a large extent they're all the same though really, to different levels. JJ makes a good point in stating that the Club are out of the woods now in terms of players in the pipeline to sell (it was looking sticky for a while after RVPs sale), with Rambo, Wilshere and Ox all ramping up their values solidly. On the CF front though, many on here (me included) and ,many generally slated the Club for buying Ozil as a type not needed last August. Why now with Ozil expected to come good next Season would CF be a necessary purchase? They see Rosicky as having at least another one good year in him, Ozil to shine. They like Cazorla, Wally started to look OK before he went and got crocked again plus Ramsey and Ox. Theres no sensible argument to buy him as i see it.Reality suggests they might spend 20 odd million here and there. I reckon at least make it a forward and a RB if nothing else. They ll not get top marque players for that, but its about par for the Club to stop up the odd leak, rather than try revamping the whole water main. For an Arsenal to expect otherwise is to kid him/herself.

109. DW Thomas

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:52 #52413

     No ledge in front of me Baddie. However, I am passionate about many things sir! Arsenal one of them. My main point is that that passion has been slowly eroded the last 10 years to leave mostly anger and irritation. And I really like most of the squad as is. Sometimes, though, men must stand up and be counted. When will Wenger ever do that? He inherited a great team and club. Now he has become the club in the eyes of many. What say you? Do you bow down to him as well? I think you're smarter than that. His ego and persistence with buying cheap (I don't believe Ozil was his idea!) boggles the rational mind. I just can't grasp how he or the club thinks, beyond making profits. It is a recipe for almost men. We almost won the league/CL. But hey we are in the competitions each year! Winning the FAC is great, but remember it was Hull. HULL! Is that our aspiration as a club? Not what Gads, Wenger, Stan, and all the matchstick men say! So what is their genius plan? More Sanogos? More Kallstroms? What fun that is!

110. BADARSE

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:39 #52412

     DW Thomas, come down off the ledge!!!

111. jeff wright

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:30 #52411

     MG, Stan is relying on Arsene to get 4th again next season rather than to win the Prem. That would require a massive amount of cash to be invested and that under Stan and Ivan will never happen.Also the qualifier tie could be tricky this summer for various reasons and with our wage bill already over £160m Stan will not want it getting any higher and failure to get the champions league group stage cash will be a big blow , so that tie is obviously a concern until it's actually won.That posse of yank biz execs beavering away at Arsenal Holdings on various scams do not come cheap either Also it's a fact that their efforts are not making any money ,as it was expected that they would do. Interesting times with the fat Uzbek lurking in the background. However, one thing is for certain the claims that Wenger with his frugal ways was now surplus to requirements, with Ivan's brill biz plans making frugality a thing of the past can safely be dismissed as being nothing but a pipe-dream .

112. DW Thomas

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:26 #52410

     Maybe Arsene harbors some bad feelings towards Cesc for leaving. Yet, no matter what anyone thinks, lets look at facts for a second. He is one of the best in his positions on the planet. He played his best football at Arsenal. He could go to a major rival if we don't sign him. We need midfield depth every season due to injuries. Rosicky is getting older, Ozil didn't perform that well last season, and many fans would love his return. Gadzidis's comments about budgets is a continuation of the joke that is our transfer policy. We should be stating that we have plenty of money for the right players at the right price. Not to cause teams to raise their prices, but to state we aren't afraid to spend wisely again like Ozil. All I feel like is a mug and its getting old. I can't stand it. This club is a bunch of b..lsh..ters! Chelsea has already gotten their man Costa, Cesc might be next. Oh but wait, we are the club with history, who does it the right way. What is IT? Losing our captains and beat players? Buying flops and paying them a ton? Falling at each chance we get to win something? So we beat Hull in the FAC. Wow, what a great win. And we barely did it! I am getting more angry as I write this. Angry and tired. More of the same last 9 years awaits. A manager who is past it and lives on past glories and ideas. But, wait, no, I am mistaken. He is a man to be worshipped, is right on everything, never makes mistakes. How can we doubt him? The club? We have become a corporation driven by money to fill the pockets of already obscenely rich men! We deserve what ever happens this season. And it won't be trophies unless we strengthen and well.

113. jjetplane

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:17 #52409

     First signing to be 'promising youngster' from Ivory Coast. I could have just made that up, but that is the truth and would appear Maureen has made up with Cesc so that's that (thank gawd) and BF in the world will not budge for less than 40mE. Watch him go to Germany and score for fun (no jokes). So Ox is arguably the best player in England right now, though give him two years to recover and he will be like Ramsey. By then Ramsey will have won the PL/CL and all round animal loving soft rebel from New Wales? I love the Ox and Ramsey and let's hope Stan hasn't noticed them yet though head prefect goody two shoes has probably squealed already. 'Read the papeurs (sic) Stan? - Ox is trading at ooh 35m and rising and the boy who loves animals is steady at 85m...' The world awaits Ox and I cannot see Arsenal giving him 300thou a week. I feel a mega Cole volcano type thang in car with film going viral which should get the wheels in motion. Quality will find it's feet in the right place eventually. Again, the Ox is bigger than Rooney which begs the question. How does our Jack feel? Assuming he can get up off the grass at some point. How long has he been there? Had a strangely punk type week in a cinematic sense so this comp. thing above - I am all torn ears. 1 2 3 Go!

114. Ron

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:16 #52408

     KC - Agree absolutely with you, but there we are. I just think when you look how close we we're to being ousted by Everton for the top 4 and then the falling away of the Toffees,then the psychological boost of an FAC win ,the Club will see it as indicative of Evertons Season having been a bit of a flash in the pan to be nullified next time by Europa lge demands. They may also see Utds decline as longer lasting than do many and Liverpools added CL burden as the factor that will stymie their momentum. All this leading to a conclusion that Arsenal can still compete, but the Clubs definition of the word and not by such as many our definitions.Its a gamble as you say, but its one that Arsenal have deployed for quite a few years now and by the skin of their teeth at times, they've been right in as much as satisfying their own objectives are concerned.

115. KC

     Jun 05, 2014, 19:05 #52407

     Ron if your correct then we run a major risk of slipping not only league position wise but also recognition wise by both players and supporters. That is a recipe for business failure which I find hard to believe our board can not see. The competition is getting stronger as well as greater in numbers, wengers methods have obtained fourth consistently surely they have enough sense to realise more of the same can only see them struggle to maintain fourth, don't they!!!

116. Ron

     Jun 05, 2014, 18:33 #52406

     The Clubs statement that CF is not subject to them exercising their option (which i think is the right decision anyway) is quite telling. Its implicit in making it now, so early perhaps that such a level of signing isn't on the agenda. I think the Club have made the statement to send the message to all and sundry who harbour ideas of a steller signing or two. The mentioned French free signing i.e the back up CB from Lyon is nearer to reality.He may be a decent player, who knows, but its true to type. Equilibrium will be Arsenals target for next Season i.e more of the same. Its been bolstered by the FAC win and that alone will be 'sold' as being the stepping stone for these players 'in whom i have great faith in their mAturrrity and deeesirre to go on from ere'. A lot of might not see it Arsenes way but his dogmatism and stoicism have to be applauded if nothing else.

117. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 05, 2014, 17:34 #52404

     jw, you may have just broken the hearts of the many who thought it might be different (again) but to many it wouldn't or won't come as a surprise.

118. KC

     Jun 05, 2014, 17:26 #52403

     I am hearing Cesc is on his way to cfc great! Once again Ivan is talking about budgets. Cfc needed a striker, got one and now Cesc. We required a striker and now two but we wait. Liverpool are active we wait. Ivan talks about negotiations but I'm starting to think yeah right back and back up keeper. I appreciate it's early days but it's following a well worn path. If by the start of the season serious money is not spent I see no reason not to be in favour of a Usmanov take over. I have no faith at all in Ivan and Wenger getting it right. I hope things happen that change my opinion but if they go on their merry way we are going to slip further behind.

119. jeff wright

     Jun 05, 2014, 16:48 #52402

     The oil salesman's comments that Arsene "Will be working to a fixed budget." regarding buying any new players is a long way from the boasting that Ivan was indulging in last summer regarding what Wenger could spend. These latest comments are just a thinly disguised warning not to expect another mega-bucks signing. I presume that a fixed budget then rules out a £100million war-chest being available and it would not be the biggest surprise if money made from sales is more than what is spent when the books are closed.

120. BADARSE

     Jun 05, 2014, 16:45 #52400

     So, international football for the World Cup claims it's first victim. Naturally it is an Arsenal player. I haven't seen the footage of the incident but saw a snap and I recognise the unnatural bend in the knee to know it's ligament damage, even if Hodgson doesn't yet know. If a complete rupture we may see him after the season is perhaps two months old, a tear and he may be around for the big KO, a strain and he only misses the World Cup. I am so resigned to the price we as a club seem to pay for damned international football. The Ox was totally complicit, so it's just my personal irritation being vented. Oh well, c'est la vie. Oh, and I have a red toaster as well as a red kettle.

121. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 05, 2014, 13:11 #52399

     Ron, we didn't know you were a poet, and a good one too and one we can understand, i might have penned a slightly different ending myself, nice one so we have two Bard's now.

122. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 05, 2014, 12:50 #52398

     John F, your prediction isn't far away at all and none of us would be surprised even the faithful, but we all hope your wrong but i wouldn't hold your breath, even if players are signed it's doubtful there will be much cause for excitement.

123. Bard

     Jun 05, 2014, 9:08 #52397

     DW: yup with on that one but our transfer dealings are something to behold. It's hard to fathom what really goes on. There are one or two facts. We are known ditherers and sticklers for not paying over the odds but aside from those knowns i have no idea why we make it so difficult and so protracted. I do get the idea that we don't want to pay £10m more for a player but is that the sticking point? If we have to pay £5m more why not just do it and get the job done especially if it's someone we want. At the risk of going over old ground the Suarez bid was a mistake. He's now worth £70m so if we had of offered £50m we might have had a deal. No we insult Liverpool with the £40m+1. Will we get a top striker for less than £40m I don't think so.

124. BADARSE

     Jun 05, 2014, 8:13 #52396

     Morning radfordkennedy, glad the info was a little helpful. A different time, and different emphasis on people's obligations, and ethics were more important and had a higher regard back then. You are so right, Tom Whittaker's personality shines through...actually I wouldn't mind you at my shoulder either.

125. radfordkennedy

     Jun 05, 2014, 7:54 #52395

     Badarse...thanks mate very helpful,I tell you something the more I look into Tom Whittaker's story he's the sort of bloke you'd like along side you in a fight!...

126. DW Thomas

     Jun 05, 2014, 0:43 #52394

     Cavani. He could make a difference. Cesc. He would help with depth. A top CB, RB, backup keeper and we'd be pretty solid. Add a DM like Makalele or Viera, but maybe young and tough and we'd be maybe complete. Wait, I know, dreaming again. My best dream is when Wenger says we have signed the players we need. The nightmare is our current reality, where the same 4th place is celebrated like a trophy. I have become a broken record, I know. But, without voicing our feelings we have succumbed to the vapid staleness of it all. Just a few true stories of class signings EARLY. Is that so much to ask?

127. Ron

     Jun 04, 2014, 22:06 #52393

     John F - Oh so true, a signing we crave. Surely not another french knave. Do not be like the naysayer, we're soon to see that super player. Fear not say i, theres money a stash. All ready and primed for the trolley dash. Arsene knows, tik taka he blows, pray for the day whence he goes. Three more years of much the same. The same old faults of which we'll blame. Good old Arse, the Clubs a farce. Never though fear its only a game.

128. John F

     Jun 04, 2014, 20:59 #52392

     My hopefully wrong summer prediction.June arrives and I am scanning all the sites,For the signing that going to set the PL alight.The days pass and I watch June go,we put in bids but a few million too low.July arrives and a big signing could occur,but it's a freebie frenchie who is quite frankly merde.Done deals scream the sites we are very close to signing,but poor offers continue and the alarms bells are ringing.Nothing happens and at last August is here,Money available state the board have no fear.My frustration grows and the squad looks thin,City,chelski,utd deals done and eager to begin.Then the statement arrives that makes gooners despair,I have got the squad to challenge claims Mr Wenger.Poor start and the board begins to panic,last day and things are really getting manic.I switch on my computer and my jaw hits the floor,Arsenal sign Eto,milner and re-sign Bendtner.

129. Matron

     Jun 04, 2014, 19:35 #52391

     Our medics are rubbish.

130. Board

     Jun 04, 2014, 19:13 #52390

     Just read Costa passed his medical at Chelsea. I thought the boss said no one would be doing any business before the World Cup. Presumably by no one he meant us. Why are other clubs often able to get their business done early and we mess about up until the last minute? They have had a whole season to identify targets and sounds put possibilities. Is it incompetence and if it isn't what is the logic in waiting until the last minute? Baffling.

131. BADARSE

     Jun 04, 2014, 18:52 #52389

     Much in what you say DW Thomas. As a ball-player, even at a junior level I was studded quite a few times. Scars around my ankles bare testimony to that fact. It obviously follows that the man holding the ball is going to get quite a number of late and mistimed tackles flying in, then an injury is subject to physics. Hit a standing leg and the damage is often considerable, hit a leg in motion or off the ground and the impact can be minimal. I have mentioned this before about our pitch. It is a grass/artificial weave. Perhaps it has a contribution either in landing on it or running on it. I suppose one match wouldn't affect an away side but our boys playing regularly may suffer as a result. Speculation though, so no one should run off with that as proof. It would require scientific evidence and we are not going to be treated to that. Perhaps a combination of our league being the most brutal, overplaying as we have a less experienced squad, the surface, ball-holding style, plus less protection from referees as we are the Arsenal and we 'don't like it up 'em'. Possibly all these circ*mstances, or alternatively our medics are rubbish, ha ha.

132. DW Thomas

     Jun 04, 2014, 15:25 #52388

     Missing the PL a little this morning. News that even if Ribery is injured Nasri won't go to the WC to fill in. Growing up cheering for Les Bleus I fell in love with football in part due to Tigana, Platini, et. al. There was a team, funny similar to Arsenal, that didn't win much in the 80s when they were the best on the field many times/ injuries hurt them as well and who can forget when that German keeper Schumacher came flying out to flatten Battiston. They did win the 84 Euros, but I will always remember that 82 game up 3-1 they lost on pens to the Germans. Great game. Finally the golden generation with Zidane, Viera, et al. won the big one and the Euros next. They they flopped without a fit Zidane in 02. 2006 they were beaten by a defensive Italy side content to go to penalties. I always thought when Zidane missed a free header in regular time that started his rage and Matterrazi egging him on caused him to blow. Had he won 2 WCs he would have gone down as greater than even Maradona and on a level with Pele. My theory on our injuries is that we are a finesse team in a supremely physical league. You retain the ball and release it at the last split second, that's when those legs get left in and bad things happen. That and a shallow squad. No depth, less subs, more fatigue. Doesn't take a genius to figure it all out. Eager to see all the Arsenal players in action this summer for their countries. We are blessed with some top players. Shame Ramsey may never be there.

133. Matthew Bazell

     Jun 04, 2014, 13:24 #52387

     Money is the deciding factor, but the Premier League teams have that in abundance. The problem is that we play kick and rush ping pong, pin ball machine football. That may work against teams that play the same way, but not in Europe. For the last ten years we have had the means to make a far better challenge than we have done. Bar 2006, our record in the CL is ****.

134. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 04, 2014, 13:15 #52386

     jjetplane, yes i was thinking of Carry on Abroad for the training camps where they all lay about and did/do nothing but maybe the CL would be more apt where the coach never ever reaches ells bells it always only gets so far usually the same town in Spain every year and breaks down, and we're left cursing the chief mechanic for not servicing it properly but it's never his fault it's always the apprentice.

135. BADARSE

     Jun 04, 2014, 12:51 #52385

     Hi radfordkennedy. Herbie Roberts, nicknamed the policeman, as Herbert Chapman switched him to a 'stopper' and became the template for all 'stoppers' from that day hence. He was red-haired, came from playing for Oswestry on the Welsh borders, and cost £200. Regarded in AFC circles as a genius for his position as he was very intelligent and followed instructions perfectly. His role was to stay in the centre of defence, intercept all balls down the middle and pass short. He would often slide the ball forward to Alex James to begin a movement. As his passing was generally short it masked a very hard shot. Hope this helps buddy.

136. jjetplane

     Jun 04, 2014, 12:36 #52384

     Nice stuff MG and ROY Apparently they still work on new scripts. Carry on Losing won't carry too many laughs but maybe Carry on Regardless with Stan doing his 'night at the emirates' bit and Kenneth W being chased by the tea lady who is being chased by our Ollie. Where to fit in Jack Yak Yak? We could be up for the silliest season yet. Cue Arsenal stars lying in a row (Armoury duvets) on mountain retreat in Switzerland. Location shots sell tickets. Postscript Gervinho is officially a 'top player'. If all these players having left Arsenal recently got together they could form 'the new Arsenal'. Not a bad team there with a Simeone to hold it together. I was not thinking of Flappy in goal ... Yak Yak.

137. jjetplane

     Jun 04, 2014, 12:08 #52383

     Watch it Diaby - Matron is on her round. Chuck the playstation under the bed. Phoarr! Who's she? Oliver? Think it's time the squad went camping with Kenneth Wenger ...

138. radfordkennedy

     Jun 04, 2014, 11:43 #52382

     Amos..thanks mate I had tried on wiki and it came up with a garbled message about awaiting input I'd assumed there was little known about him to display but its sounds as if this was just a systems error thanks mate I will revisit that site..cheers

139. radfordkennedy

     Jun 04, 2014, 11:21 #52381

     Badarse...afternoon mate,you mentioned earlier a celebratory dinner for the 1931 team,this is a bit spooky but you may be able to help I'm currently researching the backgrounds of 8 players from that period and their exploits a decade later,but there's one whose proving elusive his name is Herbie Roberts who apparently won 3 titles tween 32 and 35.I cannot find any info on him place of birth etc,if the source of your earlier post mentions him could you post back thanks mate

140. Bard

     Jun 04, 2014, 8:47 #52380

     Henry: I agree dead unlucky especially against City, Chelsea and Liverpool. If my memory serves me correctly the first 4 goals in each of those games were offside and as for injuries my word we were unlucky. As for buying Kallstrom how unlucky was that. Who could have possibly guessed he had a broken back when we bought him. I would go as far as to say we have been dead unlucky for the last 9 years. This bad luck has been a curse.

141. Ozzie

     Jun 04, 2014, 8:15 #52379

     Congratulations to the sheilas. Who says Arsenal don't win trophies?

142. julesd

     Jun 04, 2014, 7:23 #52378

     What a wonderful morning! We will all be enlightened by the marvellous news that Ian Wright, he of the 'fink' word, not think is to be a pundit on the BT channel along with, wait for it Robbie Savage, he of the illuminated teeth, flowing golden locks, ginger tan and who runs like a girl, I can barely wait for the world cup to begin, what wondrous news.

143. BADARSE

     Jun 04, 2014, 6:54 #52377

     Good morning all, including the 'carry on' team. If spite is might, then it might be right, but perhaps should be left, don't you think? Oh and my kettle is red and white, not black...so is that racist then? lee afc, if you ever feel the need to avoid the pontificating and top-heavy negativity you can. I know the attraction. It's like a carousel, multi-coloured and looks inviting. You jump aboard and just go around and around, seeing the same views from your seat, then you begin to feel sick. It happens every time, ha ha. Good old Arsenal.

144. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 03, 2014, 23:49 #52376

     And then of course there's Carry on Doctor which wouldn't surprise many if it was filmed in our medical department. Gary O'Driscol would be Kenneth Williams as Dr Tinkle as obviously that's all he does and you'd have Andrew Rolls in the roll of Jim Dale as Dr killmore (very apt indeed) as they're always dead on their feet when they return,i don't think we have a nurse unless that's how we want to describe Chris Senior the masseur, but if he's anything like Barbara Windsor as Nurse May is it any wonder our players are so prone to injuries? and when they go in there we never see them again for weeks or months? and why we've never seen Diaby for years.

145. jeff wright

     Jun 03, 2014, 23:05 #52375

     lee arsene fc,you couldn't hit a barn-door with a shotgun from 6 feet. Hey I'm pleased though for you that the recent FAC win (that you keep mentioning) has given you something to celebrate in the park when you sit drinking your cider with your mate on the bench -at least the weather is a bit warmer now - tbh though I'm happy that we can move on from winning the FAC in 2005 . At least we won't have to wait 9 years for another one with old Arsene having only 3 years ,if he can last it out, to try and win it again in. He really should have quit while he was ahead.

146. Lee afc

     Jun 03, 2014, 22:25 #52374

     I've hit a nerve Jeff..ha ha ha.....keep piling on your negativity old fruit.

147. Ron

     Jun 03, 2014, 22:20 #52373

     You've a florid imagination Badarse, nobody can take that away from you i suppose. I guess this board has penetrated your daily life a little too seriously though if your puerile rantings and blather on this thread are any guide.As for 'spite', well, pots and kettles eh old fella. Its all those life long leftie leanings coming home to roost maybe.

148. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 03, 2014, 21:59 #52372

     Roy, the promo poster would look good alright and wouldn't be all that hard to put together as you say OGL in the Sid James roll not exactly wavey hair but the same colour and like Sid the main man and runs the show, very apt for Carry on Camping as his character was Sid boggle as his decisions make the mid boggle especially with tactics and defending,and of course his oppo bouldy as Bernie Lugg both big and bald and don't have much of a say.

149. jeff wright

     Jun 03, 2014, 21:28 #52371

     lee arsene fc at least you are not boring us with unlikely tales of how your day at work went in your none existent job - or with stupid claims that everyone at home games,that you never attend, are all behind Arsene. Other than that just the same old oafish idiotic abuse with yet again another silly reference to the FAC win, get over it and grow up is my advice to you knucklehead.

150. lee afc

     Jun 03, 2014, 21:20 #52370

     one things for sure is that JEFF is going to be a boring old fart for another 3 years (always complaining, negative comments, anti Arsenal) because MR WENGER has signed on the dotted line. Life is getting better by the day !!!....it's nearly a month since we last won something !!!

151. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 21:16 #52369

     The rudest person on the Ronlinegooner is...? You react because you feel your position is threatened, methinks?. Just saying something doesn't make it so chum. If you have a placid audience singing from the same song sheet then your utterings go unchallenged-it's what they want to hear. Opposition and it's taboo, so the spiteful insults pour forth. Sad really because you have much to offer. The thing is you have an agenda, and dressed in a cloak of reasonable utterings you slip in unproven assumptions and they are not presumptions. Then you toss in fantastic falsehoods. It's a winning formula. Pity some see through the veneer.

152. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 20:55 #52368

     No, I can do silly! Deep in the forest where the drumbeats don't resonate, a distrustful place where even a Gecko doesn't echo, lives a flock. This is the place where they spin, and spin, around and around, wishing and washing. 'Bleat!' they bleat, which is kind of neat. They wonder whilst they wander, 'Will he be sold? Is he too old? Am I a bit cold? Bosman, bossman? 'Groan', the faithful heard. 'Groan' again Dick, but turn it up...or down.. No questions asked-they shan't be answered. 'tis the groaning war chest, and full to the brim. How do we know this? Especially as the brim is positioned halfway down. It has been rumoured with many a bleating heart. It's enough then, who needs confirmation, or reaffirmation, or even automation-unless the priesthood is your goal, even if the ball doesn't cross the line. 'Sell! Sell! Sell! some cried, but no one heard their sobs. What's a player being groomed for? Surely a horse is a better neighbour for a groom, with or without a bride or bridle. It's written, and if not it's spoken and once upon a time it is enough. The moving chocolate finger writes and having writ moves-in the grooves, but some say it's a rut. To the trio we all say, 'Carry on regardless!'

153. Ron

     Jun 03, 2014, 20:55 #52367

     A chappie like Arteta would still in build release clauses into his contracts Badarse to cater for offers he will inevitably receive for mid contract, large pay day offers in the States and so on primarily. While his contracts would only be short due to his age and his Club readily agree them, they still install 'compensation' elements for when they release such players. Often its a loss of 'sweeteners' they granted when the contract was agreed plus lots of other little windfall 'claw backs' they can recover. His sell on is low as you say, but the Club still looks to benefit. It can take an age to unravel these contracts and players releases are often given early but are conditional upon resolution within a certain period with a long stop date imposed on the player and transferee Club. Same with young Adam, don't take my word for it but never assume some of us on here don't know our subject matter. Adam i suspect has youth to justify his doubts about what another poster says, but you just have either old age and/or stupidity to blame for yours (the latter being prevalent in the pecking order i suspect sadly.

154. jjetplane

     Jun 03, 2014, 19:58 #52366

     ROY got Sid on the bench with the prof. Now we know why they are all throwing sickies - oooooh Matroooon! ADAM nought like a giggle while all and sundry are speculating on what in all probability will be a muchness of a muchness. BADARSE football is in the cosmology - spinning itself into a selling frenzy. Who knows - Giroud might top the scorers (no jokes) out in Brazil and end in in Italy for 30m. Hedge funds - dontcha love 'em.

155. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 19:27 #52365

     Adam, this is hilarious posting at it'smost oblique. We have Ron jjetplane and maguiresbridge telling it like they imagine it to be, or relish it to be, or crave it to be, (delete as necessary), without any proof or reality-it is quite funny really. I think Arteta is waiting to go for a big fee too...oh, I can't even be bothered to joke, it's too silly.

156. Henry

     Jun 03, 2014, 18:42 #52364

     I feel the club is going in the right direction with a great manager leading us. We were very unlucky not to win the league as with a fit squad we would have. Interesting that we were cheated out by ref in CL or we would elimated Bayern as we were destroying them before. I feel the dark days are over with financial constraints left .

157. Ron

     Jun 03, 2014, 18:40 #52363

     Adam - Ozil? Your post chastising JJ was about Ramsey wasn't it? You dont need to take my word for the contracts of the modern player for sure. Feel free to think what you will, but please, do go check the Bosman ruling and it ll help you understand. For the record though as you mentioned him, the same applies to any player, inc your hero Ozil. Every Club is a 'selling Club' without exception, some are just willing to sell more often than others, thats the only difference. AW in particular is a great exponent of maximising the benefit of a long contract, though a few have slipped his net even and left us for next to nothing. Celebrate the 'comfort blanket' that you feel is the likes of Ranseys contract if you wish, but don't ever think the Club or him dont have it laced with ousters and exclusions not to mention the collateral (unwritten/sometimes written) nods and winks. Theres not one player in that PL who would ever sign a contract that bound him for its duration unless his agent and/or Solicitor was an idiot, nor a Club who would want them to. Each has his price and when the price is right ...........

158. Roy

     Jun 03, 2014, 18:38 #52362

     jjetplane, you've done me up like a kipper there, mate - Imagine the promo poster for the Carry On Selling movie ! Wenger in the Sid James role, of course and I'll leave the rest to your imagination.....Oh, and keep it clean you filthy beast !!!......Yak Yak Yak......! Oh, please yerselves.

159. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 03, 2014, 17:36 #52361

     Ron, of course i enjoy it we all do one way or another along with the rest of the flock (fans)for the benefit of BADARSE who expect the war chest to be opened (cheque book) for the benefit of BADARSE tongues out ( salivating in anticipation and excitement or lapping up the spin) for the benefit of BADARSE that it will actually be spent on the players that we need and are actually any good or world class for a change, and as the clock ticks down and the salivating tongues of anticipation are slowly withdrawn when realisation sets in for the flock who should have known better but didn't, yes jw the faithful.Yes Ron then it's the trolly dash for players OGL has been scouting for years and had his eye on from the start of the window, maybe he thinks the reward points count in the league that's why he insists on the stickers, and he'll tell us all their top top quality and the tongues will appear again as the flock sorry faithful lap it up.

160. Ozil

     Jun 03, 2014, 17:26 #52360

     Thanks Adam but the truth is I cannot settle here and I know Aaron loves the sun. You like the sun Adam?

161. Adam

     Jun 03, 2014, 17:18 #52359

     Ron - Nice conspiracy theory mate but its not as telling as it as you have zero proof. Funny how you don't mention Ozil our most talented player who we brought for 42m and have him on 200k/w wages. Guess the club is lining up his sale as well as he is far by the mast valuable player in the squad. After all what are Ramsey who has had only good season and Wilshere who has never lived up his promise compared to one of the best midfielders in the world of the last 5 years?

162. Ron

     Jun 03, 2014, 16:56 #52358

     Adam - the long Ramsey contract that you speak of is to benefit the Clubs more than the players these days. The longer it is, the higher the price for the buying Club. Players and Clubs often have a nod and a wink agreement with each other to the effect that as soon as a good offer comes in, the Club will tell said player and allow him to go for the right price. On that basis the p;layer knows that the term of the contract is a near irrelevance and in turn the Club know that they can play hard ball with the players blessing. Its called freedom of contract and its been this way for years. JJ isnt slamming the Club at all. Hes telling it how it is and the Club have done well to get him onto the contract. Ramseys will be happy knowing that if his progress continues, hes off to a titan Club if they ever come knocking without waiting for this contract to expire.Not being critical of you but if you think Arsenal dont already have in mind his future sale price or that of Wilshere, then you're just kidding yourself young fella. Blink and you ll miss their exits. Watch that swinging door, its hinges have already been re oiled!

163. Adam

     Jun 03, 2014, 16:42 #52357

     jjetplane We want to sell Ramsey thats why we gave him a 100k/w contract and signed him up for a long term. Such bull**** you speak just to slag of the club.

164. jjetplane

     Jun 03, 2014, 16:33 #52356

     Now Giroud is knocking them in for fun (sounds familiar) there will be no need for a striker. Now that is going to plan. Next stage will be sending Arteta on a one way to NYC (hopes). Might meet Lampard if he can afford the ticket. Now about that Ramsey move to .... (how much!). Be patient Stan - all will be revealed (during the QF's). Oliver likes Bony and that's the end of it! Did they have a Carry on Selling movie Yak Yak.

165. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 15:45 #52355

     maguiresbridge, you also get your reward points! Check out the reduced counter, you might find Arsene there muttering, 'Yellow stickers, yellow stickers!'

166. Ron

     Jun 03, 2014, 15:16 #52354

     MG - You know you enjoy it really ! The blind hope that a quality purchase will happen, knowing it wont and you ll get to August still hoping and then it doesn't. Its good for your emotional well being to have a burst of June fresh optimism, followed by July dismay dismay and bewilderment. If it didn't happen, you wouldn't have the unbridled mirth of the belated trolley dash in late August. Its all planned like a long running soap opera bless em! Here s to many more trolley dashes and made even better when the spin machine tells you it was all pre planned and each one in the basket and through the check out has been 'watched' for 2 years. You love it really!

167. jeff wright

     Jun 03, 2014, 14:10 #52353

     MG, even though already everything is deja vu in past summer breaks and the great leader has already stated that he will not do any biz to try and replace the three players that have departed , still optimism burns within the minds of the faithful. Agents and the media stir up things of course with the agents trying to do deals to make money and for the media this really is the silly season.

168. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 14:06 #52352

     Monumental day! My young grandson Charlie has finally taken an interest in Bruce Springsteen, the 'Boss' has reached him at last. One bit of brainwashing comes to fruition so onto the next stage. WENGER OUT, repeat after me, 'I'm glad Arsene is staying!'.

169. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 13:43 #52351

     Salutations maguiresbridge, glad you have shown up as we have a dress rehearsal at 2.30pm for the Online Gooner orchestra recital-we are playing at 5pm tonight! Did you bring your spoons? Just remember do not spoil the finale with your yodelling. Now to business. My question is, 'Who comprises the flock you talk of? Tongues hanging out also, awaiting the grand opening of the war chest? Is it the people around your way? Though you mention jw so perhaps it's people he knows? Either way I am foxed, which brings me onto my next subject. We are holding a 'Wild animals in Captivity Appreciation Society' gathering, on Friday morning. Bring any stray cats or dogs you like; julesd is bringing some hedgehogs. As you know a special concession to you is we will still accept you bringing roadkill, providing you promise to do the ventriloquists act with that old dead squirrel of yours.

170. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 13:28 #52350

     You are never too old to learn, here is a snippet I have just learned about-from an account of our first title win in 1931. We beat Aston Villa into 2nd place for the crown. They were invited to our victory celebratory dinner...and they attended as a team! Makes me shake my head in disbelief at how many notches the world has cranked on since those austere days of mass unemployment and deprivation, hang on, that bit hasn't changed!

171. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 03, 2014, 13:26 #52349

     jw, the over the top optimism has started already mate even at this early stage, with the flock waiting impatiently for the fabled war chest to be unlocked with tongues out in anticipation of the super stars arriving or the top top quality, boy is the spin machine doing a fine job as always (Fabregas) has everybody renewed yet? as someone has already said and it could have been yourself, you'd think they'd know better by now.

172. jeff wright

     Jun 03, 2014, 13:02 #52348

     Ozzie ,I was playing devil's advocate looking at things Wenger from Stan's view with my comments about 3 years being a mere blip in football. I had had enough of Wenger 5 years ago!

173. CT Gooner

     Jun 03, 2014, 13:02 #52347

     I'm with you Zedd, our new dead weight is aging midfielders. Unlike before, these guys have been good/great servants to the club, so folks are more emotionally attached.

174. CT Gooner

     Jun 03, 2014, 12:51 #52346

     Adam, you are right, I have no proof that we won't sign Cesc, BUT it's been reported by the guardian and the mail that we have rejected The opportunity. As for slagging Wenger, I wouldn't be doing that if those helping him maintain his control would wake up and smell the roses.

175. Maureen

     Jun 03, 2014, 12:25 #52345

     Good morning Cesc.

176. Ron

     Jun 03, 2014, 11:47 #52344

     Hi Lads - Lots of great points fellas. All good stuff. Zed - Yes mate, i could live with your scenario of selling Cazorla to accommodate CF. Dont get me wrong guys, i rate Cesc and he s smashing guy with good integrity. A striker and power house man is my priority though. You're right too. Seeing him at Chelsea or any Club in the PL would grate a bit!

177. Bard

     Jun 03, 2014, 10:54 #52343

     Zedd good stuff mate. Contentious it may be but how about selling Cazorla and Ozil, buy Cesc + world class Dm. This would add much needed steel as well as craft. Can you imagine Cesc at Chelsea or at Man ? Badarse makes a good point ,we have to be thinking of off loading players, Diaby, Arteta come to mind for a start.

178. Adam

     Jun 03, 2014, 10:17 #52342

     Ron - This is Bayern's midfield - Bastian Schweinsteiger, Arjen Robben, Javi Martinez, Toni Kroos, Franck Ribery, Mario Gotze, Thomas Muller, Thiago Alcantara, Xherdan Shaqiri. And we can't find a place for Cesc come on man.

179. Zedd

     Jun 03, 2014, 9:56 #52341

     Ron - Don't agree with your view on Cesc. Hes a top class player, better than Ozil and without Ozils weaknesses. There is always room for quality. We play a 2 playmaker system, currently with Ozil and Cazorla. Cesc is much better than Cazorla. Therefore best case scenario is to buy Cesc and sell Cazorla. I agree though with you on needing a powerful defensive midfielder. I would happily sell Diaby, Rosicky, Cazorla and Arteta in order to get Cesc and a DM.

180. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 9:45 #52340

     Corruption of the highest level in Qatar. World Cup? Don't make me laugh, money-spinner for the big boys that's all it is. As was the fiasco in S. Africa, the winter Olympics in Russia ad infinitum. When people complain of giving their hard earned cash to AFC- and I fully defend their analysis and right to implement the action-they might take a look at the bigger geo-economics picture of world sport and it's machinations. As I don't get a newspaper and avoid gossip,(Devil's Radio it is George Harrison), I was amused to hear someone ranting over the national anthem, how odd that drivel like this passes, ( and passes in the Allardyce way, forty yards and most of it above head height that is), for an intelligent pastime. I have one question for you all, 'How do you like your eggs in the morning? I like mine with a kiss!'

181. WENGER OUT

     Jun 03, 2014, 9:23 #52339

     Ron - if buying Cesc would prevent Wenger from having enough to buy a right-back, defensive mid, centre back, left back and striker, then it probably would be in the best interests of the team to pass up - But would it not be devastating to see him in Devil red or Chavski blue? Just imagine the boost for the fans at Cesc returning, like the signing of Ozil it would bring more to the team than the added ability of the player in question. Definitely letting emotion get the better of me, but unlike Nasri and RVP, Cesc is special.

182. WENGER OUT

     Jun 03, 2014, 9:12 #52338

     If you don't think Cesc should return, watch back the goals he's scored against Spurs and then try again - Some of the best individual goals I've seen in an Arsenal shirt. Watch back the pass to Adebayor the LAST time we won at OT. After Henry left, Cesc was the last world class performer we had - Yes RVP had one good season for us - and we've got nowhere near replacing him. The reason Wenger won't sign him back is simple. Due to the complicated way deals are written these days, Barca probably haven't given us £30m for him yet - Wenger buy a player back for more than he sold him for - Not on your life my pedigree chums! He's far too stubborn and if he allows Cesc to join Chelsea, really does not have the best interests of AFC (on the pitch) at heart.

183. Ron

     Jun 03, 2014, 8:15 #52337

     DW - Hi matey. Yes, ive been going on about our left side defensively for a year or two now and we do really need a LB in my view. AW wont spend heavy on one as hes looking right side and quite properly too, so a short term fix would suffice as i see it. Ive never rated Gibbs too much and Monreal is honest but limited. Cesc is a good player for sure but where would they fit him in with Ozil there? It would be a well over egged pudding as i see it. Never much for players returning either to be honest. My main wish is for a dynamic and powerful player in the middle. We ve enough creativity already. A player in the Ya Ya mould is needed to take the weight of those we have. Such a player in big games especially may well bring out the best in Cazorla too. Theres too much emotion when Fabregas name comes up and i think Wengers right to resist it, if its true that the Club are not interested. Thats all im saying.

184. BADARSE

     Jun 03, 2014, 7:21 #52336

     Good morning my little cereal bars, too busy to do what's right, but compensating in the best way possible, a little flaky, sweet, but also nutty. To me Fabregas was a revelation. I was astonished not by his ability-which was special at such a tender age though-but by his reading of the game, his vision and skill in implementing that precise artistry. I have never seen any better at this at such an age and do not believe it could be bettered. I will die without seeing a better 'Fabregas-type'! But chill guys. Do not let media-spin and personal desires rule your heads. If it's a real prospect and it happens then great, if a pipe dream then stop smoking that weed! Arteta still has fuel in the tank, and it's definitely unleaded. Age Ozwald? It's all relative chum. Be patient, either for the open top parade, or the hearse, we are not that significant to decide on which vehicle passes next.

185. Ozzie

     Jun 03, 2014, 6:58 #52335

     JeffWright, 3 years may be a mere blip in the "football world" but to all the ageing supporters who might finish up in a body bag before The Arsenal win the League.....we havealready lived through a few blips....guess another wont matter.

186. Adam

     Jun 03, 2014, 3:39 #52334

     CT Gooner - How do you know that Wenger won't go for Fabregas again? You have no proof and are spouting off to things that does not exist. Any chance to slag of Arsene right?

187. CT Gooner

     Jun 03, 2014, 2:13 #52333

     I can't believe Wenger won't bring back Cesc for 30 mil. We talk of improving the squad, who in midfield do we have that's better? I'll give you Ramsey, maybe, but that's it. Some muppet on Sky Sports was muttering about Arteta, but to me he should be playing for Fulham. Secondly, he'll make all our competition better. Perhaps centre midfield should not be our priority, but good squads have players like Cesc in spades, we don't! I have even higher expectations with this news, and if they're not met 3 + players at over 100 mil spend, not another penny from me til Wengers gone.

188. DW Thomas

     Jun 03, 2014, 0:39 #52332

     Ok Ron. You think Cesc should not come back but Cole should?? Can't believe my ears man, and I usually agree with most you say. Cesc was class, great vision and scored goals. Changed many a game for us. Even better for me than Ozil is. Cole was good, but the way he left was disgraceful. Sure we should have offered him more, like Sagna, but after he left his head got way too big. He is well past it and neither Mo nor Roy wanted him did they? Cesc is a sure starter on any team any where IMO. I would watch Barca just to see him play again. Him not winning a trophy with us as captain was down to his partners via Wenger and PY. In the team now he would only add to a great MF. Name a better CM and I can argue all day he's just as good or will be.

189. DW Thomas

     Jun 03, 2014, 0:18 #52331

     Good argument. I would add or emphasize that spending money works if it is spent at the right times, in the right way, on the right players. Ozil plus Suarez last season and I believe we would have won the league. Or at least been close. I thought Suarez was good but he did things this season that were amazing. His goals and effort were incredible, despite what seems an obvious immaturity. The biting thing seems forgotten, but that will always go down as weird, very weird to me. Still, his class on the field is undeniable. We need someone like that. If only Wenger could pull the trigger and complete the team. We always lack that one or two key players. Champions do not. They have quality and grit everywhere. This year City held on and grabbed their chance when it was ripe. Didn't we lead the league more days than any team this season? But still we flopped, again. Why? Depth and,goals. When, if ever will it be addressed? This summer we have yet another chance to fill the holes. Will Wenger buy the right players? Passing on Cesc would be a huge mistake if he desires to play for us again. How we'd welcome him back!! The prodigal son returning!

190. KC

     Jun 02, 2014, 22:30 #52330

     @Bard - Good post totally agree.

191. jeff wright

     Jun 02, 2014, 21:26 #52329

     We don't need Fabregas he has not got any quicker since he demanded to be freed to join his amigos at Barca and more pace in midfield and a physical presence is what is required with a quick striker with good first touch technique up front . It was signing Fabregas that set Wenger on his tippy tappy journey to nowhere , we won nothing with him and he left when it suited him. Wenger should be looking at changing tactics away from outdated Barca lite passing and possession, yaaaaawwwwwn , if the old codger still has any real ambition left ,and I have serious doubts about that, and this means a change in the type of player that we currently have. I'm not expecting this to happen though and Diaby will be on parade along with the other injury prone suspects at the start of the season. Wenger's three doughnuts short of a packet if he thinks that our current squad topped up with a couple of squad type players to add some cover will win us the Prem or CL . But that's what I'm expecting ,plus the usual OTT optimism from the AKB regarding our prospects and why the other clubs will all fail. Personally I think that Wenger was wavering over signing a new contract but the FAC win persuaded him to give it another shot at winning the elusive European Cup that he craves so much .

192. BADARSE

     Jun 02, 2014, 21:13 #52328

     Interesting reading. I do think the excitement of 'who is coming?', needs to be balanced with 'who is going?' We have two strikers, two left sided mid men, two central 'behind the CF' mid men, two right sided mid men-three when Theo returns, two box to box mid men, two holding mid men, plus Diaby!!! two LBs, three CHs, a RB and a keeper. So a keeper and a RB is a given, and shall arrive. We shall still be a CH short and no Sagna to double for this position-that will be the next priority, a fourth CH. Only then will anyone new arrive. It may happen that someone does come in, but someone may have to depart. It will not be a 'Let's raid the sweet shop' scenario, people. Can we carry anyone else without ousting someone?

193. Bard

     Jun 02, 2014, 20:50 #52327

     Some great posts on here. As I said I'm in the Cesc camp. He's all that Ozil is plus he's a fighter and loves the club. I like Ozil but I am not sure he doesn't go missing when the action gets hot. We could build round Cesc. The other thought of course is that he goes to one of the Manchester clubs and comes back to haunt us big time. I find that unpalatable. While we are on strikers I'm not in favour of Benzema for the same reason. He's another fair weather player. We need a Costa/Aguero type. Someone with cojones. I'm hoping that the Balotelli stuff is rubbish. The guy's an accident waiting to happen. Am in agreement with the view that Arteta has had his day. I'm getting excited already , it's ridiculous I should know better, Wenger is the ultimate contrarian.

194. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 19:19 #52326

     Amos, the opinion is wedded to the facts. The point is that English teams used to dominate the Champions League, and it just so happened the players were far better. If you want to use the subjective claim that the league is internally stronger then so be it, but if you think the English teams of the last few years, most of whom have been and are in transition, are just as good as the ones of the pre-2009 period, then I fear you may be virtually alone in believing such things.

195. Amos

     Jun 02, 2014, 19:14 #52325

     Theo, sure some people are wedded to their opinions and I'm perfectly happy for you to stick with yours but as I've said it is just opinion and all I'm doing is sharing some observations. Quite how it constitutes propping up any defence of Wenger isn't any clearer than the opinion that the PL has become weaker. The same arguments can be used to claim that the PL is in fact stronger internally and hence finds it harder to challenge effectively in external competitions (does the lack of a winter break inhibit PL teams more than some other leagues?). It's an interesting observation and impossible to prove or disprove. For that reason it's best not to be wedded too firmly to such opinions.

196. KC

     Jun 02, 2014, 18:53 #52324

     We do require Cesc he offers goals and assists, sure his position is no priority but today it's about the squad not just the team, Arteta and Rosicky are just a season away from going. Cesc is a talent with real end product and would be a great addition and give all a lift. We still require two strikers now that NB has finally gone. But knowing how wengers mind works with squad numbers I'm not sure he will go for it hope I'm wrong, wenger gets caught up with numbers to much ie because NB did not go last summer he kept him as a squad player even though he wanted him out I struggle with that mentality because surely if you don't rate someone you want someone else you do rate and let NB play his last season in the reserves

197. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 18:42 #52323

     Amos you've been repeatedly accused of doing this by people who you debate with. I cited United as an example- Liverpool won the 2005 final and reached the final in 2007, City haven't achieved anywhere near that much. Chelsea's average for the second period, even with the anti-football win in 2012, is 40 points compared to 58 before- their team's average age was too high, they have needed to rebuild and guess what, that's what they have been doing. Torres doesn't compare to Drogba at his peak... Arsenal with Henry and Bergkamp was quite a bit better than the side of the last few years. So was the settled side up to 2009, before the team had its first teamers ripped out. You're just try prop up the defence of Wenger by denying what is obviously a weakened Premier League.

198. Amos

     Jun 02, 2014, 18:20 #52322

     Theo, 40 points more or less for Chelsea based on round in one competition wouldn't be significant but there's nothing unique about that experience. Over the years and the rounds and group matches you could apply those adjustments to many different individual contests. Though there's a case for claiming they usually reach the last 16 (though not all 8 groups are equal contests)the best teams don't always win nor do they always reach the QF, SF or the final in knockout tournaments. ManU now isn't as good as they were but we knew that already. But it's just one team in one competition at one point in time and by itself doesn't prove the claim that PL football now isn't as good it was in 2008. Whether it is or not can only ever be opinion. I don't have to try to obfuscate any claim that it is because there's nothing transparently clear about such a claim in the first place.

199. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 02, 2014, 17:57 #52321

     Alsace, spot on, i was thinking the same thing myself ref Fabregas and forgot to add it in answering a question asked by Bard over the page that's one reason why i can't see it happening maybe the main one (that's if it's not only spin anyway) he has grown up now, he has won medals and honors (and know doubt wants to continue doing that so why would he come back)and he's learned a hell of a lot and gained a hell of a lot more experience since leaving us and uncle arsene after following his instructions for so long and been told what to say and do and would have his own opinions now, and wouldn't be afraid to air them, and as you say wouldn't be afraid to speak his mind and let OGL (and others) know what he thought, and that would never do, heaven forbid any player or member of staff standing up to OGL and telling him he's wrong.

200. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

     Jun 02, 2014, 17:56 #52320

     I have spent major cup finals watching Spain and shouting at Walrus Features to get Fabregas on. He comes on, makes the killer pass and Spain win. He turns up for the team and can't stand others who don't. In my view he will manage Arsenal one day and when he does he won't accept the culture of strategic and tactical error that has dogged us for a decade. Lastly, we played the last third of the season with a depleted midfield because Ramsey and Ozil and Theo were crocked. We need the cover and we need the input of this man. Why would we not buy him, Arteta????? Diaby????? I would love to ask the dressing room whether they would like him to come and play for Arsenal.

201. Zedd

     Jun 02, 2014, 17:29 #52319

     Ron - Benzema is what we need but he isn’t what we’ll get. You know Wenger spoke about not having him and Giroud in the same squad. The thing is, Giroud as back-up is fine, I have no qualms. But as the first choice striker playing for The Arsenal?! Come off it man. My other alternative is to get a Sanchez. Plays wide and up top. Link up play isn’t anywhere near as good as Benzema but at least he’d be able to swap seamlessly with Theo. This really needs to be well-thought out, not just buying a striker for strikers sake

202. jjetplane

     Jun 02, 2014, 17:08 #52318

     WENGER OUT in agreement with you there that Wenger who does not like to spend will now possibly gather together for 80m! two players who are 'on the way down'? Real and Barca will just love this and those two together is OK if you are putting on 'beautiful' football tappy-in for the pizza munchers. Whether they would be a base to attack the big trophies - well - ask Scholes! His could well be a JW type analysis. All to prove which should take care of the next 3 seasons murmurings ..... Well done the Ladies!

203. Ron

     Jun 02, 2014, 17:08 #52317

     Zedd - We do matey, but we re not going to see the likes of either of them at Arsenal.I know what you mean about Bony but i do think there's quite a bit more to him than Mr G. Ozil ideally needs a very top bloke marauding up top in front of him and buying him without such a player was like having Ant and not Dec really. Ozil seems like a luxury player to me and thus only top marque team mates can extract the benefits of him. There's no real deal players joining Arsenal as i see it and by the way, i dont see Benzema as one of them, do you?

204. Zedd

     Jun 02, 2014, 16:53 #52316

     Ron, Bony while being an obvious upgrade on Giroud is just another lump in all honesty. Ozil wouldn’t work well with Bony, we need a mobile option in the mould of a Suarez/Aguero.

205. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 16:47 #52315

     Amos it was the referee rather than the away goals rule that robbed them. 40 points wouldn't make a massive difference to the total... No mention of City/Chelsea not even getting through their groups in 12/13! You're just trying your best to obfuscate the issue- I said already, English clubs played the best and beat them in the pre-2009 period. But, for example, United now are just as good as when they had Giggs/Scholes at their peak and 2008 world player of the year Ronaldo, right?

206. WENGER OUT

     Jun 02, 2014, 16:42 #52314

     Wiggy needs putting out to pasture, Fabregas would be an ideal replacement. Yes we still need a midfield destroyer, but no team in the world would be worse off for having Fabregas. The lad has a unique talent for spotting and executing a pass, the thought of Ramsey, Wilshere and Fabregas all vying for a midfield starting place would be a real statement of intent by the club. Not to mention how much Ramsey and Wilshere would benefit from playing fewer games in which they're so heavily relied upon. Proceeding with Arteta is simply not good enough - He can just about cut it against the Hulls of this world, but watching him stumble around the midfield from calamity to calamity has become a form of torture.

207. Amos

     Jun 02, 2014, 16:30 #52313

     Theo,Chelsea may feel hard done by going out to the eventual winners on away goals, as did we the season before last, but I felt that Barca won the final convincingly enough. However, you kind of make my point for me. Chelsea might well have warranted an extra 40 points if you felt that a final place was earned but not gained. That's the flaw in such measures. Yes it is irrelevant that not one English club made the QF's in 2012-2013. Had we not drawn Bayern and ManU not drawn Real but Malaga or Porto or Celtic or Galatasaray or Shakhtar then maybe it would have been different. Who you draw and when is far more telling than what round you go out in.

208. Ron

     Jun 02, 2014, 16:21 #52312

     Hi Theo - quality of spend indeed plus also, the ability of the Coach to get the quality players, actually playing to his optimum. PS Bony - i'm surprised a Club like Arsenal aren't knocking Swansea's door down for him. He lacks a bit of mobility maybe and pace, but he'll do well at a better Club and with better players i suspect. Carroll and Downing are prime egs of players who somehow found themselves by default at a top Club, due to a case of a Coach in Dalglish who thought he could get a team of Brits playing like they did in the 80s and 90s, like the old dinosaur that Dalgish had become by then. Being English, their prices were barmy when Liverpool bought them and then when they wanted shot of the carthorses.

209. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 16:10 #52311

     Amos it's very debatable whether Barca 'convincingly won it'. Chelsea dominated them over both legs in the semi-finals and were denied several legitimate penalty appeals. Also, what about the fact that 2008 also had three out of potentially four semi-finalists that were English clubs? Should we ignore these trends because cup competitions throw up, in your words, 'occasional surprises'? Is it irrelevant that not one English team made it (even) into the quarter finals in 12/13?

210. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 15:57 #52310

     Ron, here's the subtitle of the Telegraph article written when Clichy signed for City: 'Gäel Clichy has signed a four-year deal worth £90,000-a-week at Manchester City – two years after claiming that players who “think only about money could end up at Manchester City”.' City realised this of course, and so they tend to make about 1/3 of earnings based on performance. When it comes to the biggest tests like Barcelona, you see the real 'integrity' of teams- City don't have that. Real is a perfect example- you cite Ronaldo and Bale; both players dreamed of playing for Real their whole lives, and they, unlike City, have a core of national team players. It only took Dortmund one season to adapt, but they have a better manager than Mancini (tactics, motivation etc.) and so it didn't take years. United and Chelsea were also part of a weaker league when they first qualified (based on performances in the CL). I don't discount money, not all, I accept that relative spend argument pre-2009 as I said, but it's quality rather than quantity of spend that matters most. How much did Michu and Bony cost compared to Andy Carrol and Stewart Downing?

211. Amos

     Jun 02, 2014, 15:42 #52309

     Theo, I think the idea that as three english teams reached the semi-finals in 2009 it represented a zenith in the quality of PL football compared to Spanish football when Barca won it convincingly is a bit of an assumption. At least it is so when Chelsea played Liverpool (who finished 7th in that season), ManU played Porto (ok they topped the Portuguese league)and we played Villareal (who finished 5th in La Liga)in the QF's. This season Chelsea got knocked out by La Liga winners, ManU lost to Bundesliga champions as did we of course. I don't disagree with the contention that quality of spend, tactics and motivation are key ingredients to success, Arsenal are an example of that given the scale of distorted spending we've experienced in the PL, and without those ingredients it's possible to under perform no matter how great the resources, but I don't really think that a knockout tournament such as the CL is any real indicator of that when such cup tournaments occasionally throw up surprises as was the case when Wigan won the FAC last season.

212. Ron

     Jun 02, 2014, 15:36 #52308

     Wenger out - the signs are that Cole has personal issues with Mourinho and its not hard to dredge up an issue or two with Mourninho is it when the latter is in the mood to mutualise?. Its simple too. They want a younger LB in all probability and why not? Hes 32. They can afford to dispense with a top player or two surely? That doesn't mean hes not a good short term fit for Arsenal. Your view smacks of snobbery i.e. 'not good enough for them so not for us' etc etc. We are not able or willing to spend like RA does for Chelsea, so the odd short term fix when we want to spend bigger in different areas is good by me. and what's more, we re not really chasing for the same objectives as them, despite what the Club say in my view. Monreal is a good back up player in my view. No more, as is Gibbs. The latter has been in the team for years now and is still 'promising'. When does 'promising' convert to being the finished article. I think youre in danger of risking seeing the name 'Cole' and irrationality possibly striking a chord? Many Arsenal fans are affected by it. Cole s still a great player and his departure marked a sea change at Arsenal in my opinion from which the Club, nor Wenger specifically, has never recovered sadly.

213. Ron

     Jun 02, 2014, 15:18 #52307

     Theo - Never sure about 'passion' and 'mercenaries' and the interrelationship thereof to be honest? Most mercenaries want yet more money so they've a greater desire to win surely? How can you be so sure the lack of it exists and when does a player become a 'mercenary player' anyway ? Is it 15 Mill, 25 Mill or what? Do Arsenal not have any? Ive seen no lack of 'passion' in Manchester City, yet ive seen a lot of things that looked like a lack of passion in Arsenals teams over the last few years? I could be wrong, but i can provide a lot of match egs if you want them? Ive never seen a Real Madrid team appear to lack desire, but maybe they have and ive never noticed. Are they all 'mercenaries'though as has been so idly trotted out by so many for so long? Bale looks a quality lad to me and a top pro, well driven and genuine as an eg? So does Ronaldo. Are Manchester C not entitled a few seasons to find their CL feet? Utd had it for a few years and Chelsea surely? AW s best teams from 2002 to 2005 were pretty dismal in the CL and in my view its a good job they never met the Munich, Madrid and Barca teams et al that have been around over the last 5 years, otherwise those PL thrashings at the top Clubs grounds we now see so often might have been even worse in the CL i venture. You seem to be saying that big money being splurged by Clubs is an aside to be honest and not a pre requisite to success? Its not possible to suggest it. The big money is (by and large) splashed on the top players and hence the top players have the best salaries. Some Clubs do spend big money stupidly of course and achieve nothing so the main ingredient is to spend it well. Where its spent well you ll find the result is the top prizes, like night following day. Whichever side of the AW fence any of us sit, it cant be denied that spending big well and paying top salaries takes the rewards.

214. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 15:08 #52306

     Amos, take 2009, three of the four semi finalists were English. Then look at the 12/13 season- not one English club even reached the quarter finals. Is that just a coincidence? If it hinges on there being no wholly objective measure then that applies to all the factors, including relative spend. Cl performance is a very good indicator, especially over periods of years. If anything it was more competitive domestically in the golden era- considering the big four all made at least one final appearance in that time, and had far better players it shows what an achievement it was for Arsenal to keep up. With Dortmund compared to Chelsea, what I mean is that their team is better- their record is better in the CL the last couple of years- no that's not all to consider, but considering their wage bill is less than half of Arsenal's I think the point stands that it's quality of spend, tactics and motivation which are the key ingredients to success.

215. jeff wright

     Jun 02, 2014, 15:03 #52305

     You are right Ron there are strikers out there that can be signed and it's Wenger's job to find one instead of just to keep on signing duff French ones . Remy and Giroud looked like a right pair of clowns last night playing in tandem for France and there have been horrible rumours that Remy is going to join us . We would have a treble then of Giroud,Remy and Sanago ! The three musketeers,and who said that comedy was dead. Balotelli is another who could be had ,if the price is right,but again he is another clown best avoided. We have not had a top GK either since Lehman and this is another area that needs addressing,we need better than just shot stoppers to compete at top level.

216. Wenger out

     Jun 02, 2014, 14:56 #52304

     Ron if Cole is so good then why a top class manager in Mourinho who knows about football more than any of us let him go? He resorted to using a RB at LB than use Ashley Cole. This is not really convincing and if he is not good enough for our rivals then he isn't for us. Also we already have 2 left backs one who is a promising player in Gibbs and the other we recently spent 10.5m in Monreal. Who goes if we are to bring a better lb than them?

217. Amos

     Jun 02, 2014, 14:52 #52303

     Theo, you could also ask whether the other teams competing in 2008 are generally as strong as the teams that competed this season. We can all have an opinion on that but there's no objective measure. Similarly you could ask whether the Arsenal of Bergkamp, Henry et c., would have been able to fare as well in a competitive environment that held more challenges than just ManU after the impact of Abramovich and Mansour could be felt. Again, there'll be plenty of opinion but it isn't improbable to think they would have struggled a little more than they did. Maybe City have still to find their feet in the CL (after all they're playing in a tough domestic league!). They only first qualified in 2011/2012. As for spending Arsenal have the 4th highest player budget (wages plus transfers)in the PL and finish 3rd or 4th. While Dortmund have had a decent couple of seasons in the CL reaching the final in the season before last they had a pretty underwhelming time for a few seasons before that. Are two good seasons in the CL enough to support a claim that they seem to do better than Chelsea?

218. Ron

     Jun 02, 2014, 14:34 #52302

     Adam - please do disagree by all means but never assume. Not all Arsenal fans 'hate' Cole and far from all jumped on the ludicrous bandwagon that followed his move. You 'hate' if you want too as its a common footie fan emotion it seems, i dont hate him. Hes been a great player and maybe England's only world class performer for years. He s still a top player and is better than what we have in the left back berth which has been weak ever since AC left ive always thought. The keeper is a decent keeper but hes not a top keeper. Far from it. My point on Ozil is that he needs similar quality in there to him (if indeed he is really true quality - he s not shown it yet in an Arsenal shirt?) No top strikers better than what we ve got? I'm suggesting that you're the only one who thinks that,i so wont comment further.

219. johnnyhawleylovinggooner

     Jun 02, 2014, 14:28 #52301

     Take a good look at the financial history of the big Spanish clubs,and how the books were balanced.we have a club in London that spend £1 billion to win the CL.they can afford to pay £50 mil for torries and if it does not work out their benefactor will find another £50 mil for another player.same at man city now.you have a point but generally those that spend on class players tend to win things

220. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 14:22 #52299

     Amos, yes you could change the points allocations around to some degree, but the second period is consistently better. Also, it almost didn't used to matter which teams the English clubs drew, they were consistently better than them anyway. I guess the point is do you really think that David Moyes' United compared well to the 2008 winners? Do you think Arsenal have been as good since losing Bergkamp, Henry etc. Does City's kamikaze spending guarantee them a great squad? Apparently not- they're mercenaries and therefore don't have the passion when it comes to those competitions. The point is just that, domestically in particular, Arsenal haven't, and still don't need to spend untold millions to dominate in England- clubs/teams spending is 'self-contained'- a cheaper team that has fewer deficiencies (like Dortmund) seems to do much better than a team that spends a great deal but does (Chelsea, City et al).

221. Adam

     Jun 02, 2014, 14:01 #52298

     Ron I disagree with most of your comments. First of all Szczesny is a good goal keeper who won the golden glove so he is infact a decent keeper as you say. Second of all Ashley Cole is past it and hated by Arsenal fans to suggest signing him back is ridiculous. Next you say spend 30m on a striker on who exactly? There is huge decline in top strikers and there is no top striker available. If one were to become available he would cost double that amount. Then Ozil needing a better midfielder to proser which is quite not true as he was already as that aswell as a top quality team in Germany and yet is simply not performing for them either.

222. Amos

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:52 #52296

     Arbitrary points tallies can be misleading. Is reaching the QFs really worth 3 times the number of points for reaching the last 16? Doesn't it depend partly at least on the luck of the draw as to how far you progress and what value you ascribe to individual encounters? Over the last 5 years Arsenal have drawn both Bayern and Barca twice in the early stages of the knockout round (and there're only 4 rounds). On a least two occasions one of them has gone on to win the trophy. Would the challenge of meeting them in the QFs be worth more points than meeting them in the last 16? Disregarding that observation is there also any thought that the PL may have got tougher since the 09/10 season? That would have been the point at which Mansours spending would have impacted on the local competitive environment having bought City the previous year. Logically if the PL had got tougher you might expect CL results to suffer. Ironically Chelsea, Liverpool and ourselves, and arguably even ManU last season have tended to do better in the CL when premier league form has been weaker. An interesting observation but in all probability the sample size will be too small to draw any firm conclusions.

223. jeff wright

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:51 #52295

     Theo, it remains to be seen if winning the cup will add the x-factor to our game. Personally I believe that there are too many other negative factors involved and that it will need more than a FAC win, that was far from being convincing given the oppo ,to make me believe that we are on the cusp of a new era with Wenger in charge. It makes sense for Stan( to him) to give Wenger a 3 year contract because ,as Wenger Out pointed out, we still need to win the qualifier tie to get into the CL next season and Wenger's record in these affairs is 100% .So it would be crazy from Stan's point of view to change manager now .3 years is a mere blip anyway in football world. Regarding that tie there has been a couple of close run ones and it's never over until the fat bird sings. One thing is for certain though Theo, if Wenger were to lose the tie and finish up in the Europa Cup our FAC win would be put into perspective in the greater scheme of things.

224. Adam

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:40 #52294

     Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge You have not proof of this mate. You can believe what you want but you can't criticise Wenger with something that does not exist.

225. Ron

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:39 #52293

     Jeff - Giving them the benefit of the doubt, maybe, just maybe the FAC can provide a winning mentality or at least the impetus to grow the team from it to bigger prizes? Alsace - Im not convinced Fabregas going back there is a good idea either. Certainly not for the money they're quoting. He left and left it should stay as far as im concerned but more aptly, the midfield needs far better than him in it.Power, leadership, pace and nous is needed in the team. Im not sure Fabs offers it and to be honest im not totally sure he ever did. Decent player but his innocent dreamy eyed, 'Arsenes Son' imagery fostered a far better impression of him as a midfielder than was really the case in my view.Ozil offers what Fabregas brings to the party. He needs a quality front man and midfield insurance man alongside him to prosper in my view. Spend 30 Million on a forward and the rest of the so called cash they reckon they have on the said middle man, a right back, get Cole back at LB for a couple of seasons at LB and a decent goal keeper i feel.

226. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:35 #52292

     Jeff Wright, the importance of the FA Cup for me are a few of things: firstly, these players needed to actually cross the line after choking so many times before, I think it could have a psychologically beneficial effect. Secondly, we needed to win something to keep the strong core of players committed to the cause (Ramsey, Koscielny etc.). Thirdly, we're no longer associated as being the team that can't win trophies- that has to be our edge if we can't pay the highest wages- so, in theory, better players could be more willing to join from now on. Obviously these factors don't apply to clubs such as Wigan etc. Chelsea's average in the 2009-2014 period, apart from the 2011-2012 one, where they gained 100 points, was just 25 points.15 if you look at just the season before and after so I'd suggest they have declined as their average in 2004-2009 was 58 points.

227. Jack

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:31 #52291

     I'm not sure about this. The teams who won the PL and CL are clubs who spend insane money. I really can't see how we could compete with the likes of Ream Madrid and City who have unlimited funds which allows them to have higher quality of squad than everyone else. As I much think Wenger needs to go and we should get a better manager it will take a miracle for us to win either with the level of investment the club makes.

228. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:29 #52290

     I see that the Editor can't bring himself to even discuss Wenger's re appointment for another unending chasm of time.However, Wenger's screw up's start early in the new era of failure and disappointment. He is "not interested" in getting back Fabregas to £30 million. I could say that again. I will. He is "not interested" in getting back Fabregas to £30 million. I am frankly keen to hear the apologists for our unwanted and unloved Manager explain this latest piece of lunacy. I will explain what is really going on. Fabregas would be a huge influence for good and a midfield resource which would sustain us through the season as well as providing valuable goals. Wenger doesn't want him because he doesn't want a real captain on the pitch disagreeing in practice with his barking defence "system" and destructively high line. Its the same reason he didn't want Vieira back and doesn't want to pick Flamini. Why pick Flamini when we have "stonewall" Arteta to keep the back four secure.

229. maguiresbridge gooner

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:28 #52289

     I don't think anyone expected or wanted us to spend on the scale of the blue mancs or the chavs or any one else, just to spend what we had properly, on the proper players and players that were needed. And indeed we had a great opportunity/opportunities to do that and push on when others were rebuilding and ballsing things up but as usual didn't take it and ballsed it up ourselves.

230. Ozzie

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:25 #52288

     People down under have made constant jokes for over a decadeabout the European "competitions" where it is the same two or three teams year after year after year and it looks like continuing for awhile yet. Competition my arse - for what?Fighting over the crumbs? Winning the relegation battle? Grabbing 4th spot? Selling the cattle for a profit? Pfff!

231. jeff wright

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:18 #52287

     Theo, our FAC win has no bearing on the future prospects that we hold for winning the Prem or Wenger's holy grail. You say you didnt mention the Europa Cup because of the teams that play in it but there are sides in that comp who are better than Wigan and Hull. Wenger's spent 9 years and vast sums of money to finish up winning the FAC ,the same trophy that he last won way back in 2005, he has tried using a style of football totally unsuited to our league during that 9 years and is still typically stubbornly persisting with it, despite the horrendous batterings that we keep on being handed away to top sides. I don't call that progress, or a sign of great future prospects being in store for us. The reality of last season was that we again collapsed when in a title winning position, or at least a realistic title challenging one. The FAC win is being used to try and pretend that things are getting better when in fact nothing has changed,we finished 4th again in the Prem out of contention weeks before for the title, and now need to win a qualifier tie to join the other top sides in the group stages of the CL. We have a chance to win another trophy ,if the Charity Shield or is it Community now , can be so described, when we play City pre-season for it. If we beat City this will be used to claim further progress is being made ,if not then the shield was not worth the bother anyway . Ce' est la vie!

232. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:13 #52286

     An interesting read; it might be more pertinent to point out that the 07/08 season was simply a culmination of the money thrown at Chelsea and Man Utd by their respective owners in the previous four seasons. Unless you have a genuine grass roots development scheme, the owners have no alternative but to keep pumping capital into the club. The PL never was and never will be the greatest league in the world; the overall standard was pretty poor from its inception until about 2004-05 and peaked in 2007-8, after which normal service is slowly being resumed. BTW I'm not knocking the titles AFC won in that time, you can only beat who's in front of you; but we didn't have to play Real or Barca or Milan every other week either.

233. Wenger out

     Jun 02, 2014, 13:09 #52285

     jeff wright we could very well face a tough team like Athletic Bilbao in the qualifier who are well capable of beating us. Don't take it for granted. we need to avoid them.

234. Theo Jensen

     Jun 02, 2014, 12:54 #52284

     Cheers for the comments so far, guys. @Jeff Wright, the thing is with luck is that there are varying degrees. Sure, Arsenal were lucky to get all home ties before Wembley, and maybe lucky to avoid the higher teams who we've struggled against this season. BUT Chelsea winning in 2012 was complete anti-football- Barca and Bayern just spurned so many chances, while Chelsea sat in their own box- even their fans admit it was anti-football and purely lucky. Re: The Europa League win next season, I thought someone would mention that- but just look at who they beat to get there, the focus of the article was purely on the European elite clubs so I didn't look at any Europa League competitors.

235. Wenger out

     Jun 02, 2014, 12:54 #52283

     Sam There is a reason Barca are selling Fabregas because ain't as good as you make him out to be. I have been watching Barca all season and he is an average player these days. Same with Ozil completely overhyped but an average player in reality. Typical of Wenger to waste 40m on average players after all money grows in trees right? All this just proves Wenger is a bust. Until he goes and be replaced with a good manager Arsene will mediocre.

236. Mike

     Jun 02, 2014, 12:51 #52282

     Not too sure about your analysis -Real is the most successful European Club and one of the richest. Barring some exceptions, usually it is one of the big clubs that come out on top, despite being challenged by lesser clubs Arsenal have never had a European pedigree to speak of - Even Aston Villa and Celtic have won it once. Barca have only relatively recently become a European force from around 2005. The Italian clubs like Milan won it when they were seen to be the most luctrative league in the world but these have now largely fallen away

237. Sam

     Jun 02, 2014, 12:37 #52280

     Wenger signed Ozil for 42m last season and now again with Cesc Fabregas for a similar amount. Nasri commented on how Wenger hated losing and how restricted funds had stopped him from winning. Now that we can spend again. He is buying world class players and at huge prices. He clearly wants to us back to the elite. He is clearly a top manager who has been restricted from using his full abilities due to lack of money. The future looks bright and Wenger will take us to the elite again. Cesc Fabgreas and Ozil together will be so good.

238. jeff wright

     Jun 02, 2014, 12:23 #52279

     The comments regarding Chelsea being incredible lucky in winning the European Cup ,and they also won the Europa one the following season, are debatable, surely they were just a good cup side and all cup wins require some good fortune to be had,the luck of the draw or overcoming a bad draw even as Chelsea did in the European Cup when they beat Barcelona the favourites in the semi-final. Luck is something that could be claimed regarding our own recent FAC success actually with all of our games being played at home . Although you claim that our cup win shows that there are signs of improvement and suggests great prospects for the future , surely a case of double standards being used here? I agree though that Wenger is not over achieving by finishing 4th nearly every season in the league to win a qualifier tie for the Champions League . If there will be any improvement in Europe, or in the Prem , is a matter for conjectuer and not a fact. Winning the FAC does not mean that there will be. Wigan won it before us and they were relegated . So obviously the no bearing on results in other competitions.

239. Ron

     Jun 02, 2014, 12:01 #52278

     Theo - the premise of your post is very good yet it inevitably draws the desire to use it as a further stick to beat AW with and that's a shame. It raises points that can doubt his performance as i and many now do though accepted. I think its as plain as daylight anyway even without stats to anybody that's seen any football over the last 5-6 years particularly that the quality of football in the PL has fallen alarmingly. The rush for the golden goose by so many in football ie players and coaches and so many CLubs and at such a pace, fuelled by the odious TV 'Godfathers' who drive it, has in my view seen the quality of football (defending and tactical play in particular) jettisoned in favour of free for all type goal sprees, drama (where really there isn't any), celebrity culture, conflict and short term expedients. All facets being the food and drink for TV moguls. The TV powers that be (and many fans too) love to trot out the old barbs that all of the other leagues are two or 3 horse races etc etc yet fail to really scratch beneath the surface as you are trying to do so to explore other explanations.

240. Big Andy

     Jun 02, 2014, 11:11 #52277

     Interesting article. For me the upshot of all this is that yes money does matter, but so does the structure and overall management of a club. Man United's recent successes have been built on the efforts of an outstanding manager; so have Athletico's and Dortmund's. We have a manager who is now very average and is holding us back.

241. Unchives

     Jun 02, 2014, 10:31 #52276

     The Clubs that are top of their prospective leagues are also the richest clubs. The difference between success and failure between these elite become even finer and spending more is less likely to make a difference....you cant buy desire to win. Arsenal were voted team of the Century due to their consistency over long periods of time over multiple decades and have had more than enough chances to further their success irrespective of the money.....the difference was poor decisions at key moments in time and insufficient desire to win.

242. WENGER OUT

     Jun 02, 2014, 10:09 #52275

     Good article, I like that you're lifting your head out of the 'money money money' mindset and having a look at the unseen or undiscussed factors - A refreshing way of thinking Theo. I think that the problem with analysing things in this way is that you have big spending big clubs, small spending big clubs and big spending small clubs in contention for the CL and it's this concept of 'big' which skews matters. Organically grown, big clubs generally outperform the rest over a long period of time, think Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Manchester United, Bayern Munich; all clubs with a lot of European cups between them, their success has transcended generations. It's the concept of organic growth, growth with stability, which is so hard to measure in simple pounds and pennies. It's a concept which muddies the waters sufficient for people to give Wenger their undying support. Money clearly cannot explain everything in modern day football - Could it not be true to say that success causes large spending? Successful players expect bigger salaries, successful clubs have more money to spend, it's possible that they spend the same proportion of their income on new transfers that poor clubs do. It is only the unsuccessful clubs who spend extravagantly in an attempt to catch up, but a glance at the performance of Manchester City, PSG and some of the Russian clubs in the CL will tell you that money is no guarantee of success. It can buy you a seat at the table, but the thoroughbreds, the ones who belong at the table, are the ones who will probably go home with the glory.